[Strawbale] Industrialization of bale wall construction
Max Vittrup Jensen
Max at PermaLot.org
Thu Feb 16 10:04:28 CET 2012
A) Please show the list where you apologized in public for your lies and
manipulations: Personally I'm unaware of this ever happening, so is the
rest of the ESBG team.
B) No point of trying to compare your statement to that of Bane's.
Naturally my reaction to someone I respect is going to be different to
someone I loath, and who has a track record of manipulation and falsified
C) Our ESBG and related activities lasted from early Tuesday to late
Sunday. You arrived Thursday afternoon, your lack of respect for the safety
of the site were extremely close to getting you kicked out at 2am, and you
left late Friday afternoon. It was clear that 90% of what you stated was
wrong observations. Seems to me you have no right to comment on ' the basic
approach of ESBG 2011". (BTW: We have no record of your payment). [Those of
you interested in an overview of what happened, as well as photos; Please
look at www.permalot.org]
D) The statement you quote of mine from 2009 is very correct. It says
nothing about me being against effective industrial approach to SB
building. On the contrary the mail goes on to explain that I'm very much in
favor of it. You snip out one sentence and make it look completely
opposite. (for those of you who is interested in truth:
http://amper.ped.muni.cz/pipermail/strawbale/2009-September/001879.html ). You
may also want to see the speech I gave at the Cohabitat gathering in 2011;
and repeated at the ESBG. It's all about effective and industrial approach
E) In your previous mails you again tried to claim leadership and influence
of who should host the next ESBG. With which right? Do you even have a
mandate from Austrian balers to be a national networker? To the best of my
knowledge you're completely self elected and trying to avoid a fair
influence of everyone. You also know that many of the other networker are
simply names you wrote on a list because they were at ESBG09.
To me this does not seem as a fair transparent system.
As I pointed out in the recent ESBG mail to networkers:
"We're aware that some of you have publicly announced that you don't want
to be the national contact, others don't forward mails (some due to lack of
national networks), and others represent only a fraction of the balers in
their country. Some are elected, others selected. Some selected by others;
some selected by themselves. ...And some countries are not included.
In other words, this list is quite dysfunctional.
This situation makes it very difficult to come up with a fair transparent
election system. In addition to this we have been procrastinating on
announcing this election (Sorry; blame Herbert!), and it's high time that a
host is decided upon."
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Herbert Gruber <d.sign at bestofweb.at> wrote:
> You said: "Things change fast...so do minds. When I first heard about
> pre-fab I scorned the idea, now I believe it's the way of the future for SB
> I wrote the same with other words as an answer to Bane's mail, where he
> the same: "It surprised me that strictest nature lover among us (I took a
> freedom to express my personal impression of Max) has changed his attitude
> about industrial approach to SBB."
> And you said after the ESBG 2009 on this list:
> 15.09.2009: Let me start out by saying that I share your opinion against
> 'prefab', mainly due to the added Embodied Energy in the process...
> But enough of that....
> You're still angry because I didn't like the basic approach of ESBG 2011
> wrote this letter. After that we all said we were sorry to express it this
> way and ended the strory. So let it be ended.
> If I misunderstood your (or Michael's) sentence "lot of transports + lot of
> logistics + lot of machinery = lot of money, no matter if government refund
> some of the costs" and " WENECO System will make strawbale building
> and easy anywhere by anyone, with minimal consumption of fossil fuels...",
> am sorry.
> And maybe you feel accused, what I didn't want, I'm just often confronted
> with terms like industrialization, reglementation, certification of
> strawbale building, which often implements big business (bad) compared to
> the self-builders attitude (good).
> I believe that in ecological and strawbale building everything is possible
> and usefull side on side, different opinions, different techniques,
> different approaches. Business as well as Non-business. That we learn from
> each other in a steady evolutionary process.
> Sorry, when my trial to clear this offended you (or others).
> PS: .. and I am also no native english speaker (as most of us on this list)
> and am often not able to make remarks and wits as elegant as Englishmen or
> Liebe Grüße
> Herbert Gruber
> d.sign Gruber & Partner KG
> Tel. 02958-83640
> 3720 Ravelsbach, Baierdorf 6
> UID: ATU64054347, LG Hollabrunn
> E-Mail: d.sign at bestofweb.at
> > Dear list manager:
> > Another mail; more false statements:
> > "You can try to make the future of ESBG your own,
> > pretending that there are no competent networkers in Europe..."
> > All information regarding previous and election of the next ESBG is
> > available on www.permalot.org. Anyone can read there's nothing 'made by
> > me'. All is open. (Unlike the clearly stated desires of Herbert).
> > There's several competent networkers in Europe. Significantly those who
> > have been elected in to the position.
> > And this one very misguiding/manipulating:
> > "as far as I remember, you were against these trends."
> > Nothing is further from the truth. However I've always want to ensure
> > it will remain a possibility for anyone to DIY with local bales.
> > Max
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