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[OL-Forum] Digest Number 680
OutdoorLighting-Forum "The largest uncensored and most active non-geographic based forum on light pollution."
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There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: lighting industry
From: George Nickas <nickas@hanover...>
2. Re: Subject: Re: Pinch a penny
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
3. Re: bulbs with lampshades?
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
4. Re: Crime and LP
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
5. Re: Battling on the Popular Front
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
6. Re: lighting industry
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
7. Re: lighting industry
From: kgfleming@att...
8. Now
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
9. Re: Re: bulbs with lampshades?
From: John Gilkison <jgilkiso@zianet...>
10. Re: Re: bulbs with lampshades?
From: "Karolyn Beebe" <keedo@merr...>
11. Re: Now
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 08:32:50 -0500
From: George Nickas <nickas@hanover...>
Subject: Re: lighting industry
Well, some of you have experienced IDA activity more closely than I
have, but some personal observations.
I unloaded illusions about the the IDA some time ago--they accept
lighting company advertising in their newsletters--whatever else they
do, these companies make a lot of money selling light polluting
products. Plus the executive branch of IDA sits at far more banquet
tables sipping wine and trading jokes with lighting industry types than
seems decent in terms of what has to be an adversarial relationship
between action groups and the 'enemy.' You don't get respect
schmoozing. These are generalizations but then again so are Newton's
Laws of Motion which are pretty dependable. Put another way, if you are
around fish that have 'gone off', you will smell like one.
The IDA has done some good informational work, but it is what it is
because it has made information its mission. Information, if I
mayparaphrase a mathematical statement, is a necessary but insufficient
condition to turn things around in the light pollution business--either
quickly or slowly. We have to show folks that we mean business and the
problem is serious, and as we know that involves pointing fingers. But
it's true-- "It's local, stupid" and the IDA is not interested in
getting soiled in local even as broadly local as an entire state like
New York. IDA is an ammo plant supplying the bullets that other people
have to shoot.
So, it bears repeating--short of some massive failure of the
electrical infrastructure, the local solution--picking off targets of
opportunity one at a time is correct. It's guerilla war. Ask Nader,
ask Greenpeace, but doing it so you can grab headlines and get
publicity. You finally realize it's The First Amendment everybody. One
committed activist in one place saying the right things to the right
people--that's it. gn
Susan Harder wrote:
>I just received (through my token membership in IES) a mailer card for a
>lecture held in NYC Dec 11th, entitled "Urban Landscape and
>Architectural Feature Lighting", sponsored by B-K Lighting, ERCO
>Lighting, Inc. and Louis Poulsen Lighting, Inc. (no relation to Tim
>Poulsen, SELENE), and held at Parsons School of Design. "Academic"
>credits for AIA, NCQLP LC and IESNA were offered. The lecturer was
>Lloyd Reeder, Chair of the IESNA Landscape Lighting Committee.
>
>The card is illustrated with a drawing, depicting two banks of mirrored
>office buildings, on either side, with a single tree (back lit) in the
>middle, and a mowed lawn in the foreground. The caption reads: "If you
>light it, they will come."
>
>At IDA Boston, Michael Mesure, Fatal Light Awareness Program (To
>Preserve The Lives of Migratory Birds in Urban Areas), spoke,
>eloquently, about mirrored (and lit) office buildings and the problems
>of reflections, reflected foliage, and subsequent bird disorientation
>and death. FLAP's mission dovetails with that of dark sky advocates:
>>From their site: "Many species of birds, especially the small
>insect-eaters, migrate at night. Guided in part by the constellations,
>they are attracted to lights shining from skyscrapers, broadcast towers,
>lighthouses, monuments and other tall structures. The birds either
>flutter about the light until they drop from exhaustion, or actually hit
>the object."
>
>The IDA message is not penetrating the lighting industry; yet they are
>penetrating us.
>
>Anyone else feel skewered?
>
>Susan
>
>
>OutdoorLighting-Forum "The largest uncensored and most active non-geographic based forum on light pollution."
>To unsubscribe from a Yahoo list send a blank email to listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:11:26 -0500
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pinch a penny
> John McMahon, who has an amazing ability to find almost
> *any* diversion to avoid grading papers and tests ...
Find or invent? Maybe both. -sd
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:58:04 -0500
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
Subject: Re: bulbs with lampshades?
nickas wrote:
> It really makes you wonder what kinds of rocket scientists they have
> working on these designs.
Minimizing change reduces retooling costs. Simple economics.
Been there and still there - following orders - from the boss and the
customer.
> There seems to be some real primal need
> to make light go out horizontally kind of as if you can't see
> any glare then the light is not on or something.
Bingo. Purely psychological.
Scott wrote:
> I have seen these types of lights in use from above with
> SCO Cobraheads far more visible 1/4 mile further in the distance.
What good are they 1/4 mile distance? Guide lights for landing jet
aircraft?
> Most certainly an improvement over Acorns.
That can be a matter of opinion. The acorn's stippled surface
spreads the light out over a larger surface area making it less
glary than clear glass. -sd
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:10:45 -0500
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
Subject: Re: Crime and LP
kgfleming@att... wrote:
> I'd make the 600 mile drive myself
I'm tempted. I have a laundry list on the way.
Somehow we have to get these holes in the state filled in,
including a drug store belonging to a certain state legislator
in western NY. Might have stop in Tully and help paint a house.
> > Got money to pay for my consulting fees port to port?
> Nope. Never got paid for consulting on the NY bill.
You didn't ask. BTW, I did forward your old Sierra/Icole
stuff to the state legislature and others. Thanks for the freebie.
> Gee, wouldn't a simple "no" have sufficied? Relax, go look at M13 for
awhile
> Mr. Grumpy. Matter of fact, maybe a little drive across state would do
you
> good...
Nothing like a good piece of bait for a small mouth bass.
At least it tickles one Hoosier's funny bone. -sd
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:02:33 -0500
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
Subject: Re: Battling on the Popular Front
patric wrote:
>lighting reform is an astronomy special-interest
Look at it this way: It was bait or "the line" that got us
on board and fighting mad. Now do the same by
connecting the dots for birders, seniors, and others.
The war will be won by the overwhelming forcesss!
Tree huggers just did it against the Bush administration.
> Last week we were discussing the Wisconsin village gleefully announcing
> is having an effect, and that the local paper carried a front page
story
> on opposition to the plan. Ill post some snippets when I get a copy.
Keeps us posted. Maybe some good arguments will surface. -sd
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:19:20 -0500
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
Subject: Re: lighting industry
Susan Harder wrote:
> Anyone else feel skewered?
Work diligently and with integrity, and you will be "skewered".
John McMahon wrote:
> Switching a few letters around will give a better sense of
> what is going on.
You can only be "skewered" if you grant permission. -sd
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:22:34 +0000
From: kgfleming@att...
Subject: Re: lighting industry
Susan wrote:
> The card is illustrated with a drawing, depicting two banks of mirrored
> office buildings, on either side, with a single tree (back lit) in the
> middle, and a mowed lawn in the foreground. The caption reads: "If you
> light it, they will come."
An online version of this smoking marketing gun would come in very handy for
illustrating the point to plan commissions and town councils. If this card is
not published on the web, any chance of getting it scanned and passed around?
Kevin
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:15:44 -0500
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
Subject: Now
Mark your calendar for the PBS program "NOW" with Bill Moyers,
"The Environment in the Supreme Court". If you check <pbs.org>,
there is stuff on global warming and sustainable environment.
This show is so popular that the local station had to suspend
its fund raising or face a viewer revolt.
Maybe they would consider a program on LP if enough people
were to write connecting the dots? -sd
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Message: 9
Date: (unknown)
From: John Gilkison <jgilkiso@zianet...>
Subject: Re: Re: bulbs with lampshades?
Steve
If you put 1.6 fc below a fixture lets say mounted 25 ft high,
you will then put 1/16th as much or 0.1 fc at 4 mounting heights away
(or 100 ft).
Since this component is striking the ground at a 15 degree angle
it is not really useful illumination but is for all pratical purposes
PURE GLARE. Trying to light beyond four mounting heights by these criteria
is nonsense.
*
John Gilkison
President, National
Public Observatory
jgilkiso@zianet...
www.astronomy-national-
public-observatory.org
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:00:18 -0600
From: "Karolyn Beebe" <keedo@merr...>
Subject: Re: Re: bulbs with lampshades?
Thanks for the links and discussion. I've seen those
cones in some modern designs, but they're a lot bigger.
Also looks like they reflect light up. Still like the
lampshade idea though, in the 'carriage lamp' on a post
in a nearby yard (top too small for extending the bulb
into). Not on the bulb, but suspended over it, attached
to the top with a strap or chain..
Just tried it with paper.. cut a disk; cut it to the middle;
made a parallel cut to make a strap; turned the disk into
a cone. The flare could be adjusted for the situation -
this one should light the walkway, steps and porch, but
the post is tall enough to make that easy.
I'll get back with results.
Karolyn - Madison WI
----------
Patric wrote:
> http://www.merlin-net.com/commerce/edit_item.asp?SKU=132960&RecNo=1
> This might fit under the category of "nighttime senior citizen
> repellent."
Cliff wrote: > More available here...
http://www.moldcast.com/products_peri_h.html
and Steve wrote: > There are going to
> many false prophets trying to pass off their products
> as good for dark skies, but they remain terrible for people
> walking around on the ground. This isn't just about seeing
> the stars, and we had better start singing the right song
> with all the verses included. -sd
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:38:05 -0500
From: Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...>
Subject: Re: Now
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:15:44 -0500 Steve Davis <w2sgd@juno...> writes:
> Mark your calendar for the PBS program "NOW" with Bill Moyers,
> "The Environment in the Supreme Court". If you check <pbs.org>,
> there is stuff on global warming and sustainable environment.
Here is the interview link:
http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcript_hertsgaard_print.html
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