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[OL-Forum] Digest Number 1139
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There are 9 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Encouraging News from Home Depot
From: "patric@ghostriders..." <patric@ghostriders...>
2. RE: Encouraging News from Home Depot
From: "Richard Klappal" <klappal@xnet...>
3. RE: Encouraging News from Home Depot
From: "Richard Klappal" <klappal@xnet...>
4. Light relay protest
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
5. Re: Light relay protest
From: Darren Baskill <dbl@star....ac.uk>
6. More on lp from the BBC
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
7. Re: Light relay protest
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
8. Re: Light relay protest
From: Darren Baskill <dbl@star....ac.uk>
9. RE: Light relay protest
From: "Richard Klappal" <klappal@xnet...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 14:47:36 -0500
From: "patric@ghostriders..." <patric@ghostriders...>
Subject: Re: Encouraging News from Home Depot
Leo Smith wrote:
> Home Depot's review of full cutoff lighting fixtures is encouraging. The vendor Captain may be interested in reviewing this new Connecticut building code regulation for Light Pollution Controls, if they have not already.
[snip]
> Exceptions:
> 1. Luminaires with an output of 3500 initial lamp lumens or less.
> 2. Luminaires intended to illuminate the façade of buildings or to illuminate other objects
> including but not limited to flagpoles, specimen trees, statuary and works of art.
> 3. Luminaires for historic lighting. (Acorns)
> 4. Outdoor sports facility lighting of the participant sport area.
> 7. Sign illumination.
That's encouraging that Home Depot is getting on-board (or at least
catching up to the FCO offerings from competition like Lowes) but I'd
take comfort if their decisions were based on a more solid code than one
that exempts some of the most common LP sources.
Not to cast a pallor on what must have been a lot of hard work to get as
far as Connecticut has, but perhaps it should be made clearer that by
the time Home Depot deploys eye- and sky-friendly fixtures, some of the
glaring exceptions in the Conn. code may be remedied?
Patric.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:34:04 -0500
From: "Richard Klappal" <klappal@xnet...>
Subject: RE: Encouraging News from Home Depot
I'd also like to see a 'voluntary, commercial' limit (if not a statutory
limit) that restricted "historic" light fixtures to historic light levels.
This would be a lamp output equivalent to +/- 50 watt incandescent per gas
lamp mantel, and a max of 4 "mantels" per fixture. Thus, an acorn fixture
designed to emulate a gas lamp acorn would be restricted to a maximum light
output equivalent to 200 watts of incandescent light bulb.
The alternative would be to use truly full cutoff fixtures that appear to be
acorns, such as those that have a narrow beam light source recessed into the
vertical pole, and a reflector in the 'roof' of the acorn. The beam width
is less than 1/2 the diameter of the reflector and the reflector is mounted
such that 100% of the beam is directed at the ground. Architectural Area
Lighting has a number of fixtures that meet or closely approach this design.
Others may have, as well.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: patric@ghostriders... [mailto:patric@ghostriders...]
Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2004 14:48
To: OutdoorLighting-Forum@yahoogroups...
Subject: Re: [OL-Forum] Encouraging News from Home Depot
Leo Smith wrote:
> Home Depot's review of full cutoff lighting fixtures is encouraging. The
vendor Captain may be interested in reviewing this new Connecticut building
code regulation for Light Pollution Controls, if they have not already.
[snip]
> Exceptions:
> 1. Luminaires with an output of 3500 initial lamp lumens or less.
> 2. Luminaires intended to illuminate the façade of buildings or to
illuminate other objects
> including but not limited to flagpoles, specimen trees, statuary and works
of art.
> 3. Luminaires for historic lighting. (Acorns)
> 4. Outdoor sports facility lighting of the participant sport area.
> 7. Sign illumination.
That's encouraging that Home Depot is getting on-board (or at least
catching up to the FCO offerings from competition like Lowes) but I'd
take comfort if their decisions were based on a more solid code than one
that exempts some of the most common LP sources.
Not to cast a pallor on what must have been a lot of hard work to get as
far as Connecticut has, but perhaps it should be made clearer that by
the time Home Depot deploys eye- and sky-friendly fixtures, some of the
glaring exceptions in the Conn. code may be remedied?
Patric.
OutdoorLighting-Forum - "The largest uncensored and most active forum on
light pollution."
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:20:13 -0500
From: "Richard Klappal" <klappal@xnet...>
Subject: RE: Encouraging News from Home Depot
Did some more digging/searching. 200 watts of historic street lighting
(bulbs designed for higher voltage, but operated at standard voltage, so
that they last 3000 hours instead of the normal 750 hours) would provide
~2500 lumens. A different version of lamp would provide up-to 4000 lumens
(time unknown). Traditional 750 hour household lamps, at 200 watts/lamp give
various numbers between 3000 and 4000 lumens. A 4000 lumen maximum would be
defendable for "historic" light levels.
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Klappal [mailto:klappal@xnet...]
Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2004 17:34
To: OutdoorLighting-Forum@yahoogroups...
Subject: RE: [OL-Forum] Encouraging News from Home Depot
I'd also like to see a 'voluntary, commercial' limit (if not a statutory
limit) that restricted "historic" light fixtures to historic light levels.
This would be a lamp output equivalent to +/- 50 watt incandescent per gas
lamp mantel, and a max of 4 "mantels" per fixture. Thus, an acorn fixture
designed to emulate a gas lamp acorn would be restricted to a maximum light
output equivalent to 200 watts of incandescent light bulb.
The alternative would be to use truly full cutoff fixtures that appear to be
acorns, such as those that have a narrow beam light source recessed into the
vertical pole, and a reflector in the 'roof' of the acorn. The beam width
is less than 1/2 the diameter of the reflector and the reflector is mounted
such that 100% of the beam is directed at the ground. Architectural Area
Lighting has a number of fixtures that meet or closely approach this design.
Others may have, as well.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: patric@ghostriders... [mailto:patric@ghostriders...]
Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2004 14:48
To: OutdoorLighting-Forum@yahoogroups...
Subject: Re: [OL-Forum] Encouraging News from Home Depot
Leo Smith wrote:
> Home Depot's review of full cutoff lighting fixtures is encouraging. The
vendor Captain may be interested in reviewing this new Connecticut building
code regulation for Light Pollution Controls, if they have not already.
[snip]
> Exceptions:
> 1. Luminaires with an output of 3500 initial lamp lumens or less.
> 2. Luminaires intended to illuminate the façade of buildings or to
illuminate other objects
> including but not limited to flagpoles, specimen trees, statuary and works
of art.
> 3. Luminaires for historic lighting. (Acorns)
> 4. Outdoor sports facility lighting of the participant sport area.
> 7. Sign illumination.
That's encouraging that Home Depot is getting on-board (or at least
catching up to the FCO offerings from competition like Lowes) but I'd
take comfort if their decisions were based on a more solid code than one
that exempts some of the most common LP sources.
Not to cast a pallor on what must have been a lot of hard work to get as
far as Connecticut has, but perhaps it should be made clearer that by
the time Home Depot deploys eye- and sky-friendly fixtures, some of the
glaring exceptions in the Conn. code may be remedied?
Patric.
OutdoorLighting-Forum - "The largest uncensored and most active forum on
light pollution."
Inbox out of reach? Choose "no email" at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/join?referer=1
and view posts in the archives,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/messages - only on OLF.
To join: OutdoorLighting-Forum-subscribe@yahoogroups...
Unsubscribe from any Yahoo list: listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
============================================================================
==
No endorsement of content posted to OLF by any organization is implied.
============================================================================
==
Yahoo! Groups Links
OutdoorLighting-Forum - "The largest uncensored and most active forum on
light pollution."
Inbox out of reach? Choose "no email" at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/join?referer=1
and view posts in the archives,
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Unsubscribe from any Yahoo list: listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
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============================================================================
==
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0400
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
Subject: Light relay protest
Both sides get ink in this from the BBC, 8/4/04:
"Astronomers oppose 'light relay'"
"A plan to celebrate the 'Year of Physics' by shining lights into the night
sky has upset some astronomers. Dubbed a 'grand optical relay', the
proposal involves people switching on lights in a relay around the world on
18 April next year."
Text :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/leicestershire/3936799.stm
Personally, I think we all ought to get our local SUV dealerships involved.
You know, rent some light cannons that night to add to their vehicle
displays in order to show how willing they are to spend a few extra
(petro)dollars in their well known quest to promote scientific
reasonableness. :-)
John McMahon
Tully, NY
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:14:29 +0100 (BST)
From: Darren Baskill <dbl@star....ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Light relay protest
The quote from Max is still amusing me:
"What they will do is switch on moderate light sources, such as torches
and car headlights, for less than a minute each."
Since when was a car headlight a "moderate" light source?!
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:18:09 -0400
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
Subject: More on lp from the BBC
A profile of Darren Baskill appears as part of an article on internet
activism ...
BBC 8/4/04:
"Making a difference in cyberspace"
Excerpt:
" It is approaching midnight and Darren Baskill is putting in another late
night at the University of Leicester. But as he gazes into the night sky,
the astrophysicist is not greeted by a vista of stars - instead it is a
yellowy haze caused by the city's street lights.
Like anyone with an interest in astronomy, Dr Baskill is more sensitive than
most people to the frustrations of light pollution. He runs the website for
the Campaign for Dark Skies, and is using it to 'enlighten' people about the
problems his profession is facing."
Text with some (pretty depressing) "slide show" images:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3936781.stm
JMM
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:31:07 -0400
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
Subject: Re: Light relay protest
Darren Baskill wrote:
> The quote from Max is still amusing me:
>
> "What they will do is switch on moderate light sources, such as torches
> and car headlights, for less than a minute each."
> Since when was a car headlight a "moderate" light source?!
Perhaps when compared to the lighting of the dealership where they were
bought.
Of course, from what I've seen in some instances of "high benefit" outdoor
lighting, one could make the case that even the Sun might be considered a
"moderate" light source. :-)
I also thought the argument about light having "a positive connotation in
human thinking" -- while undoubtedly (and unfortunately) true -- is really
advocating a regression to our primal past, a past from which, ironically,
science in general ... and particularly physics, I would contend ... has
tried to rescue us.
"Well, the world *looks* flat, doesn't it?"
JMM
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:03:37 +0100 (BST)
From: Darren Baskill <dbl@star....ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Light relay protest
Hi John et al,
> lighting, one could make the case that even the Sun might be considered a
> "moderate" light source. :-)
Good point - it IS a moderate light source!
O-type main sequence stars are up to 800,000 times brighter, and O-type
giants are upto a million times brighter!
It's just rather close...
> I also thought the argument about light having "a positive connotation in
> human thinking" -- while undoubtedly (and unfortunately) true -- is really
That's just a pointless remark. Astronomy, and a dark night, has driven
mankind to think from the stone age (e.g. Stone henge, Pyramids, etc, all
based on astronomy), just as much as light has enabled us to write our
thoughts down.
We need both.
cheers,
Das
PS I don't really look as gormless as I do in the BBC photo in real life!
...I hope!
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:01:25 -0500
From: "Richard Klappal" <klappal@xnet...>
Subject: RE: Light relay protest
The rainbow effects generated by thin-film interference of an oil film on
water should classify as "physics". Maybe he (Max) should next propose that
everyone dump their motor-oil and/or cooking oils (vegetable oils) in the
local stream/river/lake/pond. -- we're not proposing that people use a LOT
of oil (vegetable oils are biodegradable; motor oils are the product of
natural plant degradation), and it provides beautiful patterns along with
the symbolism!
...bone-headed, arrogant stupidity ...
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Baskill [mailto:dbl@star....ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2004 06:14
To: OutdoorLighting-Forum@yahoogroups...
Cc: sl-list@selene-ny...
Subject: [OL-Forum] Light relay protest
The quote from Max is still amusing me:
"What they will do is switch on moderate light sources, such as torches
and car headlights, for less than a minute each."
Since when was a car headlight a "moderate" light source?!
OutdoorLighting-Forum - "The largest uncensored and most active forum on
light pollution."
Inbox out of reach? Choose "no email" at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/join?referer=1
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To join: OutdoorLighting-Forum-subscribe@yahoogroups...
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==
No endorsement of content posted to OLF by any organization is implied.
============================================================================
==
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
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Inbox out of reach? Choose "no email" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/join?referer=1
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