[Strawbale] waterproofing the bathroom

André de Bouter m.ep at laposte...
Tue Jan 21 17:45:45 CET 2003

Re: [Strawbale] waterproofing the bathroom(Sorry for the Dutch folks)
Beste Herbert,

Ik wil graag meer weten over tadelakt. 
Traditioneel wordt de kalk van Marakech gebruikt, met een steen de boel 'dichtgedrukt' en met groene zeep ingesmeerd nadat de kalk is uitgehard. Tenminste, dat is wat ik tot nu toe gelezen heb. Ik heb gehoord dat hydraulische kalk (niet van Marakech ook kan).

Wat denk je, kalk stuc finsih op leem voor een buitenmuur, kan dat ook, of breekt het los met vriezen?

Als je meer tips hebt hoor ik die graag.
Dit forum is bedoeld voor engelstalige mails, dus graag een antwoord op mijn persoonlijke email m.ep at laposte...

André de Bouter

La Maison en Paille
Association loi 1901
m.ep at laposte...

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  To: strawbale at amper....muni.cz 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [Strawbale] waterproofing the bathroom

  Hallo Andre,
  ik volg het verhaal al een tijdje over waterdicht maken van de badkamer.
  Ik zal mij even voorstellen, ik ben professioneel bezig met dit soort materialen ik ben dus stukadoor met erg veel ervaring met diverse soorten leemstuk en tadelakt (hydraulische kalk)
  Volgens mijn bescheiden mening is het mogelijk om op leemstuk tadelakt aan te brengen en deze te behandelen met 'was' om het water bestendig te maken. Dan is de tadelakt de waterkerende laag en de eventuele waterdamp die door de tadelakt gaat wordt op genomen door de leemstuk. Dit is dus een volledig damp open systeem.
  Wil je meer weten over tadelakt kun je mij mailen.
  Herbert Schuurink
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: André de Bouter 
    To: strawbale at amper....muni.cz 
    Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:21 AM
    Subject: Re: [Strawbale] waterproofing the bathroom

    > The problem with gaps is that the mice like to live in them. 
    The gap is also a higher risk for condensation, and (when we talk of greater surfaces) could act as a chimney if there were to be a fire behind that cladding etc.

    I like Harald's suggestion to push tiles in the clay, but care needs to be taken on the joints as they will be the danger zone. 
    The plaster behind the glued tiles needs to be absolutely dry and finished settling in order to prevent cracking. When Tom Rijven needs to garantee a no crack earth plaster he will wait for a year (the 4 seasons with their caracteristics)before he will do the last layer.

    A bit further south than where you are, Marocco offers an other suggestion. Taddelact (or whatever is your favorite spelling)
    A lime plaster that has been waterproofed by 'crushing it' with a stone during the curing and treated with what we call 'green' soap in Holland. (The grandmothers type). A very interesting technique that we want to try in our bathroom on our SB wall. Search for more info on the Internet, or take a workshop in Marocco with the experts. 
    Little warning, it gives an absolutely beautiful finish, but may not be a simple owner builder technique. 

    Martin Oehlmann suggested a natural paint from Holland that makes plaster waterproof. Seems the most simple to me, though (linseed) oil should also work. The problem is only, what if it doesn't work? 
    How to detect any moisture problems in your sb wall before it is too late.
    With a moisture meter, either bought at a farmers shop or hand made (see TLS no?)

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Barbara Jones 
      To: strawbale at amper....muni.cz 
      Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 4:26 PM
      Subject: Re: [Strawbale] waterproofing the bathroom

      Hi Rikki
      I agree with Herbert's thinking. You'd be best with some sort of rigid board that does not deform when wet to fix your tiles to such as heraklith, or there are some clay boards available commercially but not necessarily in your part of Spain. I'd try to only tile the bits that get direct splash from water and leave the rest breathable, and then there should be no need to leave an air gap. The problem with gaps is that the mice like to live in them. If the straw is loadbearing and therefore under compression, as long as you gave it a close haircut before plastering (to reduce bounce) I would think you could fix tiles directly onto the walls as you do for other wall systems. As far as I know, this hasn't been tried before, but let us know if you do it!
      Best wishes and good luck

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        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Herbert Gruber 
        To: strawbale at amper....muni.cz 
        Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 6:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [Strawbale] waterproofing the bathroom

        Dear Rikki
        Knauf is a gypsum-board, the problem is, that such boards (even the cement-boards) tend to make a bow, 
        when you fix the tiles on it or glue it to the wall (in combination with water).
        Better work with Heraklith-boards (3 - 5 cm, magnesium-glued) and fix the tiles with cement-based tile-glue (Fliesenkleber).
        You need no space between board and straw. You only need space when you have two materials - one cold (like stone) and the other warm (like strawbale) because of water-condensation or as a ventilation-space. In the last  case you had to make holes above ground and under the ceiling, so that the air could circulate. But in this case the damp would go in the bales. 
        So: Make no ventilation space.

        Best wishes


          I am thinking of putting panels of  pladur or knauf (a type of cement board) covered with tiles in the bathroom to protect the bales from the water of the shower (not yet installed), but i was wondering if I should put a layer of plaster under the board? Also, should I leave an air space between  the board and the bale wall, or should they touch? Does it matter?  

          any comments or alternative ideas are appreciated; I haven´t started the work there yet, so I  am open to other suggestions  . . .

          love , RIKKI 


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