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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Green roofs on strawbale buildings (nigel thornton)
2. Re: Post and Beam (asbn)
3. Re: Post and Beam (Neale Brickwood)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:03:45 +0100
From: nigel thornton <nigel.thornton2@gmail...>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Green roofs on strawbale buildings
To: European strawbale building discussions
<strawbale@amper....muni.cz>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=DVEtHN2HrJwV0sY7ZQB6R-kj_W09iSAb2nFrP@mail....com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Zac
My own experience of placing a green roof on top of straw bale
construction
is that it can cause huge problems. We have a building which was put
together in Teruel Spain and consists of two rectangular units
broken up
into various smaller rooms but both about 100 metres square each.
This was
originally designed as a load bearing construction with no wooden
supporting
structure. The weight distribution caused the main problem and this
was
accentuated by the difficulty of achieving perfect leveling of the
straw
bales in the first instance. The placing of the roof (very large pre
fabricated 3 ply panels) and the subsequent impact of the weight led
to the
walls bulging and moving. This in itself led to water ingress as the
panels
had moved slightly causing further problems. We only managed to
resolve this
by adding a wooden frame throughout the structure to level and
support the
roof. Our roof is flat although obviously we have an incline built
onto it,
it our case we used small clay balls (arlita) but maybe more of an
incline
would have helped. Essentially I would not recommend the green roof
on a
large building unless you are only using straw bale as an infill.
Best wishes
Nigel
On 13 September 2010 16:30, zac solomons <zac.solomons@gmail...>
wrote:
Hello all
I am considering putting a green roof on my next straw bale
building. I
have heard of several people doing this, but am struggling to find
good info
about how to do it. I have built two smallish loadbearing sb
buildings so
far, both with lightweight roofs. My next project is an outdoor
kitchen for
a school and i am a bit nervous about putting a big heavy roof on
it. Due to
budget constraints i would prefer not to involve an architect. It
will be a
simple one storey box but i am worried about calculating loads. If
there is
no point loading, can strawbale walls simply be relied upon to hold
up an
extensive green roof? Is there any structural info for strawbale
walls
available?
I'm also looking for a good guide to installing a green roof: how
to build
an effective drainage system, best plants and substrates etc
Hope someone can help
All the best
Zac
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 18:14:04 +0200
From: asbn <asbn@baubiologie...>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Post and Beam
To: European strawbale building discussions
<strawbale@amper....muni.cz>
Message-ID: <C8B41A6C.F3EE%asbn@baubiologie...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
An architect (in Austria) normally makes the design, floor-plans,
(ecological and building-physical) material-decisions and finds the
craftsmen doing the job well at a defined price.
Normally the software used is archicad or autocad (simpler).
A carpentry makes the wood-detailing, setting of the beams, walls,
roof and
all this stuff ? so I think, that is what you are interested in.
There is no such big difference in making a post & beam-construction
filled
with sheepwool, cellulose or strawbale (even with fibreglass).
The best software for doing this is Dietrich's (3D too).
The difference between a carpenter/architect, who is able to build
strawbale-houses lies in his knowledge about ecological building-
materials
and there you may are right. In some countries its hard to find a
carpenter
which is used to build with ecological materials, with clayplaster or
clayboards, who knows about the importance of Sd-values, air- and
windproofness and so on.
But if you look for carpenters, who still built passive- or at least
low
energy houses and you see that they work with ecological materials
and not
with EPS, you're on the right way.
A few days ago I got a call by slowenian carpenter Vladimir Glavica,
who
worked a lot in Austria and wants to built strawbale-houses in SLO.
Here is the contact:
OPTIMA GLAVICA d.o.o, e-mail: info@optima-hisa..., http: www.optima-hisa.si
Maybe you can contact him...
Mit lieben Gr??en
Herbert Gruber
--
asbn - austrian strawbale network
?sterreichisches Netzwerk f?r Strohballenbau
3720 Ravelsbach, Baierdorf 6
Email: asbn@baubiologie...
http://www.baubiologie.at
Hello,
Thanks for your reply, Paul and Herbert.
It seems very logical to find an architect with experience as you
wrote, but
in Slovenia it is hard.
So I would like to ask if there are any architects out there that
would be
interested to work together.
I don't see another option in this way than to work with 2
architects. (or
correct me if wrong)
And again does anyone knows about some software as there exists for
post and
beam building, suitable for strawbale, maybe this could help a local
architect.
As interested amateur I could buy some more books, study more about
it, but at
the end it has to be an architect that has to make a plan etc.. not
me.
My planning is to start building next spring so time is too short
for me to
work it all out myself.
Any suggestions welcome,
Kind regards,
Michel.
On 13 sep 2010, at 16:57, paul paul wrote:
Just to help with responses, as I understand it from reading the
posts the
inquieries are about "post and beam" SB building, not just non-
load bearing
structures. In which case the options are much more limited to
either
putting the bales inside the p&b structure, on the outside, or
inbetween the
posts. There is also the portal frame system which is very well
adapted for
strawbale construction but is not post and beam.
There are some very good books out now that describe the different
post and
beam methods of SB building, check Amazon etc.
I would avoid if possible using an architect that is unfamiliar
with this
process unless they are very open and willing to do a lot of
reasearch BEFORE
building your house, and willing to work in collaberation with you
or others
for advice/research. Not all architects are that minded.,
prefering to take
the reigns and do it how they feel it should be done regardless.
good luck, let us know how you get on. I will try and post some
titles of
good books to get you started, or maybe others on this list can do
likewise.
Paul Sheraton
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:31:41 +0200
From: asbn@baubiologie...
To: strawbale@amper....muni.cz
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Post and Beam
Dear Jure, Michel and all other non-loadberaing builders
In my workshops I have listed 7 (8) different non-loadbearing-
systems, which
are used in Austria and as far as I know in Europe:
1) exterior strawbale-wall with direct plaster on the outside,
construction
inside
typical example:
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=280
2) system S-house, which is nearly 1) but with big bales on the
outside and
a ventilated wooden facade, fixed with special screws
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=282
3) interior strawbale-wall (normally directly plastered on the
inside) with
an outside construction (wood or plaster on plaster-boards)
4) system GREB (France), as can be seen detailed on french websites
5) CST-system (Cellule Sous Tensions) by Tom Rijven, as is
described in his
book (Between Earth and Straw) and on his website
6) StrohTec-system, which we established in 1999 and was built in
Austria
and Germany more than 100times the last ten years in variations,
a classical
infill-system, strawbales between posts, covered with structural
boards or
diagonal wood on both sides of the posts/beams
typical example:
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=120
or
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=268
7) a new modular system called system|haus|bau, which we
developed last year
as you can see on:
http://www.systemhausbau.at
or
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=309
8) The Modcell-system in UK is another modular system, which uses
cellulose
or strawbale as an infill-insulation-material, but there are not
many
details available...
Mit lieben Gr??en
Herbert Gruber
--
asbn - austrian strawbale network
?sterreichisches Netzwerk f?r Strohballenbau
3720 Ravelsbach, Baierdorf 6
Email: asbn@baubiologie...
http://www.baubiologie.at
Hello Everyone,
The question of Jure about post and beam is worth posting again.
As a builder in the near future I am also looking for answers.
As far as I know there are basically 2 post and beam methods for
building
with
bales within the non-load bearing method.
Or as infill, like an adapted Segal method, or as they do like S-
house in
Austria; enclosing the timber structure with boards and stag the
bales
around
the house in a running bond.
I would not like to have a board inside the house to plaster. It
does not
function like a strawbale for indoor climate, is more costly
etc...
Most of us are interested in strawbale building but we are not
architects,
contractors etc... just people who want to build this way and
look for the
right people to assist, advise.
Here in Slovenia such buildings are almost not existing and if,
they are
done
without much experience.
How could we have more information, that we could pass on to an
architect
without strawbale experience?
Are there plans available that can be adapted?
Is there maybe "post and beam software" available for strawbale
building
that
could be used by a local architect?
Or we could maybe use an architect from abroad, just to make the
basic
plans
and have the other plans (construction plans for electrician,
plumber
etc..)
done by a local one.
In any case, here in Slovenia we need more then one architect to
build a
house. The other we must use to do the engineering plans to get
approval.
If there are professionals, architects, or people out there with
experience
that could advise, please do, we would be very grateful.
With greetings from Slovenia,
Michel.
____________________________________________________
European strawbale building discussion list
Send all messages to:
Strawbale@amper....muni.cz
Archives, subscription options, etc:
http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
European strawbale building discussion list
Send all messages to:
Strawbale@amper....muni.cz
Archives, subscription options, etc:
http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
European strawbale building discussion list
Send all messages to:
Strawbale@amper....muni.cz
Archives, subscription options, etc:
http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
European strawbale building discussion list
Send all messages to:
Strawbale@amper....muni.cz
Archives, subscription options, etc:
http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale
____________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:38:58 +0000
From: Neale Brickwood <neale.brickwood@googlemail...>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Post and Beam
To: European strawbale building discussions
<strawbale@amper....muni.cz>
Message-ID: <62FD9DF8-E2E8-465B-B401-21C450E44860@googlemail...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
HI All
Thanks Herbert for your comprehensive response - very useful. I'm in
the UK and have been looking for a modular system to import for
housebuilding on a commercial scale. Your systems look very appealing
but unfortunately i cant read much of your website - being english and
linguistically challenged:-) Are you likely to release an English
version or point me in the right direction to find more information.
Otherwise i'd be very interested in coming over to find out more.
For the groups information Modcell can now be found at
http://www.modcell.co.uk/
and
http://www.bath.ac.uk/features/balehaus/
Bath uNiversity are now carrying out extensive performance studies
All the best
Neale
On 13 Sep 2010, at 13:31, asbn wrote:
Dear Jure, Michel and all other non-loadberaing builders
In my workshops I have listed 7 (8) different non-loadbearing-
systems, which
are used in Austria and ? as far as I know ? in Europe:
1) exterior strawbale-wall with direct plaster on the outside,
construction
inside
typical example:
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=280
2) system S-house, which is nearly 1) but with big bales on the
outside and
a ventilated wooden facade, fixed with special screws
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=282
3) interior strawbale-wall (normally directly plastered on the
inside) with
an outside construction (wood or plaster on plaster-boards)
4) system GREB (France), as can be seen detailed on french websites
5) CST-system (Cellule Sous Tensions) by Tom Rijven, as is described
in his
book (Between Earth and Straw) and on his website
6) StrohTec-system, which we established in 1999 and was built in
Austria
and Germany more than 100times the last ten years in variations, a
classical
infill-system, strawbales between posts, covered with structural
boards or
diagonal wood on both sides of the posts/beams
typical example:
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=120
or
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=268
7) a new modular system called system|haus|bau, which we developed
last year
as you can see on:
http://www.systemhausbau.at
or
http://www.baubiologie.at/europe/austria/austria.html?id=309
8) The Modcell-system in UK is another modular system, which uses
cellulose
or strawbale as an infill-insulation-material, but there are not many
details available...
Mit lieben Gr??en
Herbert Gruber
--
asbn - austrian strawbale network
?sterreichisches Netzwerk f?r Strohballenbau
3720 Ravelsbach, Baierdorf 6
Email: asbn@baubiologie...
http://www.baubiologie.at
Hello Everyone,
The question of Jure about post and beam is worth posting again.
As a builder in the near future I am also looking for answers.
As far as I know there are basically 2 post and beam methods for
building with
bales within the non-load bearing method.
Or as infill, like an adapted Segal method, or as they do like S-
house in
Austria; enclosing the timber structure with boards and stag the
bales around
the house in a running bond.
I would not like to have a board inside the house to plaster. It
does not
function like a strawbale for indoor climate, is more costly etc...
Most of us are interested in strawbale building but we are not
architects,
contractors etc... just people who want to build this way and look
for the
right people to assist, advise.
Here in Slovenia such buildings are almost not existing and if,
they are done
without much experience.
How could we have more information, that we could pass on to an
architect
without strawbale experience?
Are there plans available that can be adapted?
Is there maybe "post and beam software" available for strawbale
building that
could be used by a local architect?
Or we could maybe use an architect from abroad, just to make the
basic plans
and have the other plans (construction plans for electrician,
plumber etc..)
done by a local one.
In any case, here in Slovenia we need more then one architect to
build a
house. The other we must use to do the engineering plans to get
approval.
If there are professionals, architects, or people out there with
experience
that could advise, please do, we would be very grateful.
With greetings from Slovenia,
Michel.
____________________________________________________
European strawbale building discussion list
Send all messages to:
Strawbale@amper....muni.cz
Archives, subscription options, etc:
http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
European strawbale building discussion list
Send all messages to:
Strawbale@amper....muni.cz
Archives, subscription options, etc:
http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale
____________________________________________________
------------------------------
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End of Strawbale Digest, Vol 58, Issue 25
*****************************************