[Strawbale] [SB-r-us] what is with citrus

[Derek Roff]

John, I'm curious about how much difference you see between the 
tree-derived turpentine that you have discussed and the much more 
widely used, cheaper, petrochemical versions of turpentine, often 
sold under the name "mineral spirits", or optimistically, "odorless 
mineral spirits".  Presumably, both the tree-derived and the 
petrochemical versions show some of the same variation from product 
to product, that you mention for citrus solvents.  What range of 
"goodness" and "badness" can we expect from these other products?

Derek

--On Tuesday, October 5, 2010 8:08 AM +0000 SB-r-us at yahoogroups... 
wrote:

From: Bill Steen <bill at caneloproject...>
Date: October 4, 2010 10:05:27 AM MST
To: SB-r-us at yahoogroups...
Cc: "'Euro SB'" <strawbale at amper....muni.cz>
Subject: Re: [SB-r-us] what is with citrus

Clearly this is an interesting discussion for those of us who
occasionally use these products. My first question is which
turpentine do you recommend because most of the ones I come into
contact with have strong objectionable odors. However, if there
is one that is otherwise, a cleaner, less offensive product, let
me know. I suppose I could search myself, buy hey, why do that,
I've got you to ask and apparently you are more on top of this
than I. We've primarily used citrus thinners because of the
difference in odors, at least with the turpentines we've used. In
fact, the citrus actually has a pleasant smell.
As for contact sensitivity, I honestly have to say I've never
experienced anything of the sort.  Not even the slightest amount.
Just thought I would pass on my experiences and encourage you to
continue with your investigation. In the meantime, give me a good
turpentine recommendation and we'll give it a try.

Bill
Bill Steen
bill at caneloproject...
www.caneloproject.com
www.caneloproject.blogspot.com
HC1 Box 324
Elgin, AZ85611


On Oct 3, 2010, at 9:25 PM, JOHN SALMEN wrote:

Hi Bill

The gist of what you are saying is that it 'looks like' terpene
from citrus is safer than terpene from trees based on an msds -
with a scare factor of kidney failure etc. I can't accept.

It is interesting as I have an msds from pdmchemicals for orange
terpenes that also indicates potential for kidney damage, etc.
If you do various searches you will find a wide variety of msds
on orange or citrus terpene oils from various producers as
varying from 'safe' food grade fda applications to not safe.
I've looked at enough of them to realize that there is some
problem with either veracity or comprehensiveness in the msds
application. Industrial food politics would be my guess but I'm
not a conspiracy guy. An msds for terpene or any basic chemical
is pretty specific but when you identify a product or food group
it starts varying a lot.

For me it is based on anecdotal experience with both a worker
and a client having a reaction to citrus when we used it. No
reactions on 20 plus years of pure turpentine usage with
finishes. Masks, ventilation, etc (and I know how to make that
affective). I think the issue for me is that citrus is a
recognized contact sensitizer and that is a big risk for me to
take with workers and clients and current literature supports
that.  Is there a potential bigger toxic risk with terpene from
turpentine? I really tend to doubt it at this point in
comparison to citrus but I will keep looking for answers on that
as we want to have safer products.

John

JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN

4465 UPHILL RD,. DUNCAN, B.C.  CANADA, V9L 6M7

PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541

terrain at shaw...



Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek at unm...