[Strawbale] Embodied Energy, Carbon research of Big Bales...
André de Bouter
forum at lamaisonenpaille...
Mon Nov 5 18:45:29 CET 2007
Hello carbon heads,
If we use the principle of subtracting the temporarily 'stored' carbon
from the used carbon we are actually saying : Just add a big room
filled with wood to your project to deal with the carbon used (to
produce the cement etc.)
I believe we need to mention the used carbon, plus the carbon needed for
the next 50 years of heating and cooling plus the 'stored' carbon
instead of just 1 number.
Which reminds me of a sequence in the book 'The hitchhikers guide to the
galaxy': Very intelligent mice build a mega computer so it can tell them
what is the secret of Life, the Universe and Everything. After many
years of calculations the respond is 'YES'. The answer is probably
correct, but not very informative.
Also, isn't 'bragging' about storing carbon actually sayin': look how
much product I used, that now nobody else can use for other purposes.
André (got more questions than answers) de Bouter
France
Max Vittrup Jensen a écrit :
> Hiya,
>
> Thank you, Rikki Nitzkin, for initiating this discussion about
> embodied energy in straw bales.
>
> It so happen to be that Canadian François Gonthier-Gignac and I are in
> process of developing a tool to promote cleaner ways of building
> through optimizing Embodied energy, energy efficiency and costs in
> residential housing. It's part of our Environmental
> Management/Sustainable enegry studies at Aalborg University, in Denmark.
>
> Our case study so far has the following research question:
> "How to measure/assess the environmental and energy savings of a Big
> Bale Building when compared to conventional residential passive house
> construction ?"
>
> We are now in the process of gathering data and we'll welcome relevant
> information and links, if any of you have some good ideas: We'll get
> back with the results to you in January '08.
>
> And here's my 2 cents to the well considered answer by Rob Tom: All
> your reflections are very relevant. However put to the task of coming
> up with an amount of kilo joule which goes into 1 single big bale, my
> approach would be to find out how many big bales an average (European)
> baling machine make per hectare, and find out the liters of diesel
> consumed. These figures should give the individual answer. The LCA
> (Life Cycle Analysis) tool then also need some figures for transport
> to storage and to site, and we'll have to give some estimates;
> typically not more than 25 km in Europe. [Following the doctrine of
> not building an igloo in Sahara, nor a SB in the deep forests]. To me
> this would give the figures, though I'd at any time support Brians
> view: That the Bales are simply stored while in the house and will
> eventually return to soil, and thereby off-setting other building
> materials...making it carbon negative.
>
> Sincerely,
> Max Vittrup Jensen
> Natural Builder and Human Ecologist...
> PS: For the record: I really don't like LCA tools!!!!
>
>
> strawbale-request at amper....muni.cz wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Fw: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
>> (Brian Waite)
>> 2. Carbon (Brian Waite)
>> 3. Re: RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja (Robert Tom)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:51:18 -0000
>> From: "Brian Waite" <brian at brianwaite....uk>
>> Subject: Fw: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
>> To: "European strawbale building discussions"
>> <strawbale at amper....muni.cz>
>> Message-ID: <002801c81e18$3a9bda40$0ae12950 at bitzspecial>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Brian Waite
>> To: European strawbale building discussions
>> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It is argued by some more qualified than myself that because carbon is locked into the straw during its growth, that carbon is effectively "banked" thereby offsetting the carbon in the other building materials so that a strawbale building can have a
>>
>> zero or even negative carbon rating. This line of reasoning seems to me to be more valid than the "offsets" used to cancel out our extravagancies with token gestures.
>>
>> Another plus for SB: Research is now showing that because farmers are not allowed to burn off straw, and have to plough it back into the soil, this is creating a problem with soil fertility inasmuch as straw needs fungal action for it to decompose and there is now an excess of fungi building up in the soil, year by year, seriously depleting its' fertility. Brian www.strawbalehouse.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Laimis Zmuida
>> To: European strawbale building discussions
>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 5:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> It's hard to make exact calcullations, because it is very complex phenomenon. But there are some approximate figures. It is called embodied energy.
>>
>> Here are the tables:
>>
>> With straw:
>> http://www.canadianarchitect.com/asf/perspectives_sustainibility/measures_of_sustainablity/measures_of_sustainablity_embodied.htm
>>
>> Without straw:
>> http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs31.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Laimis Zmuida
>> Straw bale buildings in Lithuania - http://blogas.lt/siaudunamai
>>
>>
>>
>> 2007/11/2, Rikki Nitzkin <rikkinitzkin at earthlink...>:
>> I have gotten a request for exact figures on
>> -how much energy is spent in producing a bale
>> -how much CO2 is produced by it
>>
>> can anyone help?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
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>>
>> Send all messages to:
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:22:07 -0000
>> From: "Brian Waite" <brian at brianwaite....uk>
>> Subject: [Strawbale] Carbon
>> To: "European strawbale building discussions"
>> <strawbale at amper....muni.cz>
>> Message-ID: <001801c81e46$72001090$c9c82950 at bitzspecial>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Brian Waite
>> To: European strawbale building discussions
>> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It is argued by some more qualified than myself that because carbon is locked into the straw during its growth, that carbon is effectively "banked" thereby offsetting the carbon in the other building materials so that a strawbale building can have a
>>
>> zero or even negative carbon rating. This line of reasoning seems to me to be more valid than the "offsets" used to cancel out our extravagancies with token gestures.
>>
>> Another plus for SB: Research is now showing that because farmers are not allowed to burn off straw, and have to plough it back into the soil, this is creating a problem with soil fertility inasmuch as straw needs fungal action for it to decompose and there is now an excess of fungi building up in the soil, year by year, seriously depleting its' fertility. Brian www.strawbalehouse.co.uk
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 13:24:12 -0400
>> From: "Robert Tom" <ArchiLogic at yahoo...>
>> Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
>> To: "European strawbale building discussions"
>> <strawbale at amper....muni.cz>
>> Message-ID: <op.t077ymci291bzk at edg-2wjjz8rsqjd>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
>> charset=iso-8859-15
>>
>> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:50:38 -0400, Brian Waite <brian at brianwaite....uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> a strawbale building can have a zero or even negative carbon rating.
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Another plus for SB: Research is now showing that because farmers are
>>> not allowed to burn off straw, and have to plough it back into the soil,
>>> this is creating a problem with soil fertility inasmuch as straw needs
>>> fungal action for it to decompose and there is now an excess of fungi
>>> building up in the soil, year by year, seriously depleting its'
>>> fertility.
>>>
>>
>>
>>>> 2007/11/2, Rikki Nitzkin <rikkinitzkin at earthlink...>:
>>>> I have gotten a request for exact figures on
>>>>
>>> -how much energy is spent in producing a bale
>>> -how much CO2 is produced by it
>>>
>>
>>
>> I won't provide any figures for the embodied energy of straw bales simply
>> because the variables are too wide-ranging to nail it down to any discrete
>> amount.
>>
>> For instance, in countries where straw is cut and baled by hand and then
>> used in the immediate vicinity, the EE numbers will be substantially
>> different than say, rice straw that is cut and baled in Texas or
>> California where it is likely that huge tractors that are bigger than the
>> homes of many people on this planet were used and then the straw might be
>> trucked a hundred miles or more to the building site.
>>
>> And it could easily be argued that since no one actually grows straw for
>> the purposes of harvesting the straw, and since straw bales are a
>> by-product of cereal grain production, the EE of strawbales could be
>> considered to be negative. But I won't go into that.
>>
>> The problem of soil fertility due to excess fungi (mentioned above) sounds
>> spurious.
>>
>> The initial stages of decomposition of straw and other carbon-rich
>> materials like sawdust, wood chips requires nitrogen.
>>
>> Nitrogen is a nutrient that is essential to plant growth and green leaves.
>>
>> When straw is ploughed back into the soil, the initial stages of
>> decomposition depletes nitrogen from the soil at the expense of any plants
>> growing in it. Nitrogen-starved plants may be weak, growth-stunted and
>> tinged with yellow, all of the signs of poor plant vigour.
>> Once the straw has decomposed, it is beneficial to soil health and
>> structure and subsequently, to any crops growing in it. But that
>> decomposition cycle usually takes longer than a single crop-growing season
>> and land costs being so high, no farmers can really afford to let fields
>> lay fallow so if nitrogen fertiliser is not added to the soil, crop health
>> will suffer.
>>
>> Traditionally, straw was taken off and used for animal bedding so that it
>> would be mixed with nitrogen-rich animal urine and manure before it was
>> returned to the soil, hence no nitrogen depletion.
>>
>>
>>
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