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[OL-Forum] Digest Number 397
OutdoorLighting-Forum
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There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. whining again!?
From: "Roger L. Hammer" <hamme1rl@cmich...>
2. Re: whining again!?
From: Margaret Holohan <missy_holohan@juno...>
3. Re: whining again!?
From: John McMahon <mcmahon@mail....edu>
4. Re: whining again!?
From: John McMahon <mcmahon@mail....edu>
5. Re: whining again!?
From: nickas <nickas@hanover...>
6. Re: whining again!?
From: kgfleming@att...
7. link at the City of ABQ web site - Night Sky Protection Task Force
From: "David Penasa" <dpenasa@bplw...>
8. AP on LP in NY
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@mail....edu>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:39:42 -0500
From: "Roger L. Hammer" <hamme1rl@cmich...>
Subject: whining again!?
Dear colleagues, I am going to try again as I received no response to my
previous post. It was a high traffic time on our forum.
In brief, we are sometimes characterized as whining about something trivial,
as I was by a responder to my letter to the editor.
?QUESTION 1?: Can you help me think of some environmental examples from the
past that most people could recognize and relate to, where it seemed like
someone, or a group, was complaining, and were criticized for crying wolf,
but it
turned out they were totally right?
?QUESTION 2?: When did the installation and all night use of security
lighting begin? I imagine after WW2 with MV lights. Who sold the concept
to
society on the need for dusk-to-dawn security lighting? I think it's
important to know the history so we can better address people's deeply
seated beliefs. Was it a conspiracy by lighting manufacturers and
utilities?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:29:25 -0500
From: Margaret Holohan <missy_holohan@juno...>
Subject: Re: whining again!?
Roger,
My thoughts below your questions.
Missy
On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:39:42 -0500 "Roger L. Hammer" <hamme1rl@cmich...>
writes:
> Dear colleagues, I am going to try again as I received no response to
> my
> previous post. It was a high traffic time on our forum.
>
> In brief, we are sometimes characterized as whining about something
> trivial,
> as I was by a responder to my letter to the editor.
>
> ?QUESTION 1?: Can you help me think of some environmental examples
> from the
> past that most people could recognize and relate to, where it seemed
> like
> someone, or a group, was complaining, and were criticized for crying
> wolf,
> but it
> turned out they were totally right?
DDT harming the environment Rachel Carson "Silent Spring", badly
disigned and badly made cars, Ralph Nader's "Unsafe At Any Speed", X-ray
machines in shoe stores to see your bones - children later developing
problems. This also goes along with too many or too strong doses of
X-Rays causing problems especially in children, early in the century
women took arsenic to increase their weight - it was fashionable to be
chunky since it was a sign of prosperity, Love Canal, telling women not
to breast feed - that it was bad for their babies (they were often told
they could not produce enough milk and during WWII in particular the
doctors wanted women to be paying attention to their husbands not their
babies) now of course we know the opposite. The mistaken belief that no
poisons went through to the mother's milk when she was breast feeding,
thirty years or less ago, now it is widely recognized that it does.
Mercury is a good one
- now they do not even sell mercurichrome - but there is still mercury
in flourescent bulbs and mercury vapor. Thew widespread use of freon in
refrigerators and air conditioners. The use of phosphates in laundry
detergent. Thalidomide.
I could go on for quite a while but in fairness there are many things
that the "whiners" were not right about. And, there are a good many
people who are simply naysayers for its own sake.
>
> ?QUESTION 2?: When did the installation and all night use of
> security
> lighting begin?
I saw a small notation that I beleive said that somebody in my hometown
started using lights inside their store in about 1925 for the sake of
security. At about the same time very tall towers with bright lights were
erected here and there around the city. In one spot the lights were so
bright and were so far above the tree canopy that very dark shadows were
produced and it became a very dangerous place - they took that light down
because of it. It was around the same time since my mother, born in 1919,
remembers it when she was a child.
I imagine after WW2 with MV lights. Who sold the
> concept
> to
> society on the need for dusk-to-dawn security lighting?
If this helps the farms were forced, against the will of many of them, to
install electric lights in their barns in NY. I am not sure of the year
but about 35 years ago I remember that an older farmer, 70ish, was
complaining about it and I think from personal perspective although it
might have been done to his father. Probably around the 1930's. I doubt
if it was before the turn of the century because I saw one of the first
buildings to be wired by a physics professor when I went to college - an
electrician would have nightmares about this- and it was still the
original wiring - I beleive it was done close to the turn of the century.
I think
> it's
> important to know the history so we can better address people's
> deeply
> seated beliefs. Was it a conspiracy by lighting manufacturers and
> utilities?
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:37:08 -0700
From: John McMahon <mcmahon@mail....edu>
Subject: Re: whining again!?
"Roger L. Hammer" wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues, I am going to try again as I received no response to my
> previous post. It was a high traffic time on our forum.
>
> In brief, we are sometimes characterized as whining about something trivial,
> as I was by a responder to my letter to the editor.
>
> ?QUESTION 1?: Can you help me think of some environmental examples from the
> past that most people could recognize and relate to, where it seemed like
> someone, or a group, was complaining, and were criticized for crying wolf,
> but it turned out they were totally right?
Not an environmental example but useful as a general way to
introduce your point (I've used it as such in a number of
contexts):
The Trojan prophetess Cassandra, destined always to fortell
the furture accurately but always to have her prophecies
unheeded, warned the Trojans about taking the infamous horse
into the city -- but was disregarded. We know the rest.
Vergil tells the whole story of the Fall of Troy in Book 2
of his *Aeneid*; the reference to Cassandra is at lines 246-47.
As far as enviro stuf goes, the gasoline additive MTBE,
while applauded for reducing emissions, has turned out to be
a nightmafre for its ability to pollute groundwater supplies
in very small amounts. In this case it was not that folks
warned about it, but that all the consequences were not
taken into account until after the adverse effects were
startingto show up. That may even be a better analogy for
lighting, since there has been little debate so far about it.
John McMahon
Le Moyne College
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:42:34 -0700
From: John McMahon <mcmahon@mail....edu>
Subject: Re: whining again!?
Addendum:
Then there's this just recently on the pesticide lindane,
already banned in an number of countries:
"Environmentalists Urge Pesticide Fight"
by Danielle Knight
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0130-01.htm
Lots in there ...
John McMahon
Le Moyne
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:44:34 -0500
From: nickas <nickas@hanover...>
Subject: Re: whining again!?
Off the top of my head, how about these:
1. Animal biorhythms destroyed or harmed/birds flying into office towers/Audubon Society and
other nature groups/IDA
2. Cars that blow up (Chevy Corvair) when impacted from the rear/Ralph Nader
3. Acid rain and smog from auto emission/fossil fuel plants
4. Particulates emitted from fossil fuel plants leading to rises in asthma in children and
other respiratory illnesses/Dept. of Health, Educ, Welfare
5. Heavy metals emitted from fossil fuel plants poisoning the air and endangering people/EPA
6. Chemical plant pollutants release into the environment/Rachel Carson's Silent Spring/ Love
Canal, NY
7. Nuclear meltdowns/Chernobyl/ Three Mile Island
8. Possible cancers from excessive lighting upsetting hormonal balances in women/latest
medical research on endocrine imbalances stimulated by nighttime lighting
9. Cigarettes and lung cancer/warning signs a long time ago
10. Carcinogenic food additives
11. Destruction of Earth's climatic equilibria through uncontrolled private and industrial
pollution of the atmosphere and oceans leading to flooded coastlines, extinction of species,
threats to the food supply through ruined agricultural growing conditions among others.
In general read Silent Spring by Rachel Carson, and almost anything written by Amory Lovins or
Ralph Nader.
George
John McMahon wrote:
> "Roger L. Hammer" wrote:
> >
> > Dear colleagues, I am going to try again as I received no response to my
> > previous post. It was a high traffic time on our forum.
> >
> > In brief, we are sometimes characterized as whining about something trivial,
> > as I was by a responder to my letter to the editor.
> >
> > ?QUESTION 1?: Can you help me think of some environmental examples from the
> > past that most people could recognize and relate to, where it seemed like
> > someone, or a group, was complaining, and were criticized for crying wolf,
> > but it turned out they were totally right?
>
> Not an environmental example but useful as a general way to
> introduce your point (I've used it as such in a number of
> contexts):
>
> The Trojan prophetess Cassandra, destined always to fortell
> the furture accurately but always to have her prophecies
> unheeded, warned the Trojans about taking the infamous horse
> into the city -- but was disregarded. We know the rest.
> Vergil tells the whole story of the Fall of Troy in Book 2
> of his *Aeneid*; the reference to Cassandra is at lines 246-47.
>
> As far as enviro stuf goes, the gasoline additive MTBE,
> while applauded for reducing emissions, has turned out to be
> a nightmafre for its ability to pollute groundwater supplies
> in very small amounts. In this case it was not that folks
> warned about it, but that all the consequences were not
> taken into account until after the adverse effects were
> startingto show up. That may even be a better analogy for
> lighting, since there has been little debate so far about it.
>
> John McMahon
> Le Moyne College
>
>
> OutdoorLighting-Forum
> "The largest uncensored and most active non-geographic based forum on light pollution."
>
> To unsubscribe from a Yahoo list send a blank email to listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 00:32:59 +0000
From: kgfleming@att...
Subject: Re: whining again!?
Roger,
Here's another approach. Respond with the accurate
definition of a whiner -- someone who just bitches
about a problem but does nothing about it. Definitely
doesn't fit you. You're doing something about it,
bringing awareness to your community and offering
solutions. As already said products like MTBE, mercury,
DDT, asbestos, x-rays, cigarettes were once used as if
harmless -- but then the Earth was once thought to be
flat as well. Community leadership should include the
vision to respond to new ideas and revelations, in
spite of cold water from nay-sayers clinging to the
past.
Kevin
> Dear colleagues, I am going to try again as I received no response to my
> previous post. It was a high traffic time on our forum.
>
> In brief, we are sometimes characterized as whining about something trivial,
> as I was by a responder to my letter to the editor.
>
> ?QUESTION 1?: Can you help me think of some environmental examples from the
> past that most people could recognize and relate to, where it seemed like
> someone, or a group, was complaining, and were criticized for crying wolf,
> but it
> turned out they were totally right?
>
> ?QUESTION 2?: When did the installation and all night use of security
> lighting begin? I imagine after WW2 with MV lights. Who sold the concept
> to
> society on the need for dusk-to-dawn security lighting? I think it's
> important to know the history so we can better address people's deeply
> seated beliefs. Was it a conspiracy by lighting manufacturers and
> utilities?
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
>
> OutdoorLighting-Forum
> "The largest uncensored and most active non-geographic based forum on light
> pollution."
>
> To unsubscribe from a Yahoo list send a blank email to
> listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:50:26 -0700
From: "David Penasa" <dpenasa@bplw...>
Subject: link at the City of ABQ web site - Night Sky Protection Task Force
> The City of Albuquerque now has a link at their web site describing
the
> existance and activities of the Night Sky Protection Task Force! It's
> located as follows:
>
> City of Albuquerque
> Planning Department
> Neighborhood News - a publication of the Office of Community
> and Neighborhood Coordination
The Task Force's report and recommended amendments are now up on the
City's website (under Neighborhood News)! Click on the "Night Sky
Protection Task Force" link at the following:
http://www.cabq.gov/planning/pages/neighborhood/newsletter/newsletter.ht
ml
David
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:38:36 -0500
From: "John M. McMahon" <mcmahon@mail....edu>
Subject: AP on LP in NY
>From the Associated Press:
"Environmentalists hope changes in light pollution bill will
compel Pataki to sign it"
http://www.newsday.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=ny%2Dbc%2Dny%2D%2Dlightpollution0130jan30§ion=%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fwire
Pataki has now broken off talks. In case you haven't acted
-- or even you have ....
A5353/A9757
The Honorable George E. Pataki
Governor of New York
State Capitol Bldg.
Albany, NY 12224
518-474-8390
At this point a phone call is the way to go.
The opposition will *never* let us get this far again.
John McMahon
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
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