[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[OL-Forum] Digest Number 1460

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Clean water saves lives.  Help make water safe for our children.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/CHhStB/VREMAA/E2hLAA/xYTolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Global lighting
           From: susan harder <lookout@hamptons...>
      2. Re: Global lighting
           From: "John  McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
      3. RE: Global lighting
           From: "Nickas, George" <nickas@hanover...>
      4. Is it bashing or just a bad idea?
           From: kgfleming@att...
      5. RE: Global lighting
           From: "John  McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
      6. lighting and health
           From: "Nickas, George" <nickas@hanover...>
      7. Re: lighting and health
           From: kgfleming@att...
      8. Re: lighting and health
           From: "John  McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:30:20 -0600
   From: susan harder <lookout@hamptons...>
Subject: Global lighting

Putting the lighting industry in charge of lighting is like putting the oil industry in charge of our Energy
Policy, resulting in no alternatives, waste, expense, damage to the environment, sickness, unhealthy
dependence, and human tragedy.

Susan Harder





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:40:13 -0500
   From: "John  McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
Subject: Re: Global lighting

lookout@hamptons... 12/31/05 7:30 AM:

>>> Putting the lighting industry in charge of lighting is like putting the oil industry in charge of our Energy
Policy, resulting in no alternatives, waste, expense, damage to the environment, sickness, unhealthy
dependence, and human tragedy.<<<

Didn't Dick Cheney already do that years ago with his (anonymous and exclusionary) Energy Task Force? 

And hasn't the same thing been going on wrt lighting at the LRC?

Fox, henhouse, etc. 

JMM


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:52:03 -0500
   From: "Nickas, George" <nickas@hanover...>
Subject: RE: Global lighting

It would be hard to say it better than that, but with the successful hybridization of cars and defeat of the ANWR drilling option, we can see that constructive and healthful, if not still very limited instincts are still able to prevail.  The only thing oil companies and lighting companies have that makes them dangerous is unlimited funds to spread their deceits, but as long as there is a reasonably solid and persistent resistance, fantasy and falsehood eventually give way to change. gn



 -----Original Message-----
From: OutdoorLighting-Forum@yahoogroups... on behalf of susan harder
Sent: Sat 12/31/2005 7:30 AM
To: OutdoorLighting-Forum@yahoogroups...
Subject: [OL-Forum] Global lighting
 
Putting the lighting industry in charge of lighting is like putting the oil industry in charge of our Energy
Policy, resulting in no alternatives, waste, expense, damage to the environment, sickness, unhealthy
dependence, and human tragedy.

Susan Harder






OutdoorLighting-Forum - "The largest uncensored and most active forum on light pollution." 
  
Inbox out of reach? Choose "no email" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/join?referer=1
and view posts in the archives, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/messages - only on OLF. 
To join: OutdoorLighting-Forum-subscribe@yahoogroups... 
Unsubscribe from any Yahoo list: listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
==============================================================================
No endorsement of content posted to OLF by any organization is implied.
============================================================================== 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:48:08 +0000
   From: kgfleming@att...
Subject: Is it bashing or just a bad idea?

OLFers,

Recently a list member unsubscribed and responded to the auto solicitation for user comments by complaining that the list was not an "open exchange" as billed. The unsubscribing member charged that the OLF was instead a group of fanatics endulging in self-satisfying demonizing of all lighting. It might be beneficial to share my response and elaborate a bit on the concept of OLF.

The comments were off target. The only list input which gets screened is the first-time posting of new members to filter out spammers or commercial solicitations not lp related, or after someone has committed a gross violation of privacy, protocol, or ad homenin attack, the occurrence of which has been extremely rare. "Open exchange" means one can post messages singing the praises of any and all outdoor lighting as well as demonizing it. In either case, it also means others are free to point out the error of such thinking. In the case of the unsubscriber's departing comment I thought it was a matter of a stronger case being made by detractors to which he had no convincing answer. "Open exchange" means you have the opportunity to state your case, not that it will be convincing to all.

If you belong to other lists be advised the rules here may be different. You are permitted to make constructive criticism of the input of others, as are others of yours. An observation of bias of others could be a constructive criticism. You are also permitted to discuss matters related to the concept of the list. For instance, the departing member could have posted to the list the above comments sent in reply to the auto solicitation that goes out to unsubscribers. While I might make a determination that a discussion of list administration is not generating sufficient interest and suggest moving the exchange off-list, initially such comments may be posted if desired.

As to others who may feel the list promotes light-bashing I ask that you read, or re-read, the statement of purpose of OLF found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/
Certainly the list is founded on a few presumptions about lighting, namely that its current use has prima facia effects, such as loss of the dark starry night sky. But you are even free to dispute that assumption if you can make such a case. But any input is fair game for others to support or reject.

Kevin Fleming
list owner     


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 07:52:29 -0500
   From: "John  McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
Subject: RE: Global lighting

nickas@hanover... 12/31/05 6:52 AM:

>>> ... but with the successful hybridization of cars and defeat of the ANWR drilling option, we can see that constructive and healthful, if not still very limited instincts are still able to prevail. The only thing oil companies and lighting companies have that makes them dangerous is unlimited funds to spread their deceits, but as long as there is a reasonably solid and persistent resistance, fantasy and falsehood eventually give way to change.<<<

Well put. I'd only add that it's despressingly ironic that the "unlimited funds" that such corporate entities wield with such success accrue largely as a result of convincing (or otherwise persuading) both public officialdom *and* the vast majority of ordinary folks who consume their products (in many cases without viable alternatives or any economic/political power ... whether by choice or circumstance) that there is no other way to look at the world than the one that they self-servingly  have constructed and from which they thereby profit handsomely. It's a circle.

That said, it is up to us to educate, educate, educate to foment that "reasonably solid and persistent resistance."

JMM 



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:34:58 -0500
   From: "Nickas, George" <nickas@hanover...>
Subject: lighting and health

It's always good to find the news getting out about lighting-health issues--our upfront aesthetic is of course dark skies, but when a connection can be made to better health, people really take notice.  gn 

http://www.redorbit.com/modules/news/tools.php?tool=print&id=96637


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:47:50 +0000
   From: kgfleming@att...
Subject: Re: lighting and health

Hmm..this piece is from the National Lighting Bureau and morphs the adverse health implications of light at night into the need to jack up illumination levels by a factor of 10. "Generally speaking, the amount of electric illumination needed to influence health tends to be about 10 times that required for vision." - is flat erroneous in the case of melatonin suppression. It's not clear to me if the 10x increase is in reference to daytime interior illumination. Seems like in past history NLB has distinguished itself as just another marketing tool for lighting interests and this piece fits that mold.

And this is a curious statement - "Imagine being able to work in an environment where the lighting not only helped you get your job done, but also helped enhance both the quality and quantity of life." 

Quantity of life? As in brighter lighting promotes procreation? larger litters? Not the best way to state it I'm sure.

Kevin



 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Nickas, George" <nickas@hanover...>
> It's always good to find the news getting out about lighting-health issues--our 
> upfront aesthetic is of course dark skies, but when a connection can be made to 
> better health, people really take notice.  gn 
> 
> http://www.redorbit.com/modules/news/tools.php?tool=print&id=96637
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OutdoorLighting-Forum - "The largest uncensored and most active forum on light 
> pollution." 
>   
> Inbox out of reach? Choose "no email" at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/join?referer=1
> and view posts in the archives, 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/messages - only on OLF. 
> To join: OutdoorLighting-Forum-subscribe@yahoogroups... 
> Unsubscribe from any Yahoo list: listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
> ==============================================================================
> No endorsement of content posted to OLF by any organization is implied.
> ============================================================================== 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8         
   Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:12:53 -0500
   From: "John  McMahon" <mcmahon@lemoyne...>
Subject: Re: lighting and health

kgfleming@att... 12/31/05 10:47 AM:

>>> Seems like in past history NLB has distinguished itself as just another marketing tool for lighting interests and this piece fits that mold.<<<

Wasn't it someone in the NLB a number of years ago who referred to some of us working for more sensible and efficient outdoor lighting as "googly-eyed astronomers"?

>>> And this is a curious statement - "Imagine being able to work in an environment where the lighting not only helped you get your job done, but also helped enhance both the quality and quantity of life." 

Quantity of life? As in brighter lighting promotes procreation? larger litters? <<<

No, no, no. This being the US, brighter lighting enables you to spend more of your limited time here on earth locating the places you want to shop at from miles away ... and then when you get there, you can spend that quality shopping time squinting. ;-)

JMM

JMM


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


OutdoorLighting-Forum - "The largest uncensored and most active forum on light pollution." 
  
Inbox out of reach? Choose "no email" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/join?referer=1
and view posts in the archives, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/messages - only on OLF. 
To join: OutdoorLighting-Forum-subscribe@yahoogroups... 
Unsubscribe from any Yahoo list: listname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...
==============================================================================
No endorsement of content posted to OLF by any organization is implied.
==============================================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutdoorLighting-Forum/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    OutdoorLighting-Forum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups...

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------