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[DSLF] Digest Number 609
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There are 10 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: I Wish
From: "Bobby Thompson" <bobby-thompson@utc...>
2. Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
From: ctstarwchr@aol...
3. Re: Senate Rejects Fuel Efficiency Bill
From: ctstarwchr@aol...
4. Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
From: Scott Griswold <griz@lightfromabove...>
5. RE: Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
From: "Greg Crawford" <gc@nelsonbay...>
6. Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
From: ctstarwchr@aol...
7. Stellar Quotes
From: Scott Griswold <griz@lightfromabove...>
8. frustrated
From: John Kruse <bigjohn@bluebon...>
9. Re: frustrated
From: Paul Greenhalgh <fvas@shaw...>
10. Re: frustrated
From: Paul Greenhalgh <fvas@shaw...>
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:36:06 -0500
From: "Bobby Thompson" <bobby-thompson@utc...>
Subject: Re: I Wish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Wigell" <kwemail@twcny....com>
Subject: [DSLF] I Wish
> I Wish . . .
>
> I had a switch in my house that I could throw that would make it nearly
> impossible for my neighbors to watch TV. <cut>
Yah, and the FCC would be all over you with fines and/or jail. Now that's a
thought.
Bobby Thompson
Walker County Science and Tech Center
Chickamauga, Ga.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:23:03 EST
From: ctstarwchr@aol...
Subject: Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
In a message dated 3/13/02 7:45:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
thebahuses@skylog... writes:
> Did anybody notice that he appears to be in Arizona? Don't they already
> enjoy the type and quality of outdoor lighting regulations/laws that the
> rest of us would like where we live? Or am I wrong about the AZ laws?
> Bill B.
Yes, I did Bill. Scottsdale enacted a lighting ordinance about 6 months ago
I think. Maybe they made him turn his obtrusive light off? ;-)
Cheers,
Cliff Haas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:35:03 EST
From: ctstarwchr@aol...
Subject: Re: Senate Rejects Fuel Efficiency Bill
In a message dated 3/13/02 8:51:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
arnoldk@psns....mil writes:
> Our legislators won't take air pollution seriously, so our chances
> for national legislation on light pollution this year are pretty slim.
This is a very good point, because without air pollution to help it along we
would have fewer aerosols in the atmosphere condensing water droplets and
reflecting the radiance of skyglow back to earth. A number of members in
Congress are very sensitive to these issues, especially when air pollution
threatens the skies over our National Parks. This concern lead to the Clean
Air Act a few years ago. Research recently released suggests strong
indicators that air pollution may be causing cases of asthma, and also
restricts our blood vessels. Maybe relief will come sometime soon, but I
will not hold my breath.
http://ens-news.com/ens/mar2002/2002L-03-12-07.html
http://news.lycos.com/news/story.asp?section=Science&storyId=353804&topic=asthma
Light pollution both contributes to and is directly effected by air pollution
in a somewhat symbiotic relationship. Without light pollution we would still
have air pollution, but without the latter the former would be far less
prominent when humidity conditions are low. Maybe Yvan, Pierantonio and
Fabio can elaborate on this relationship?
Clear skies,
Cliff Haas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:52:22 -0500
From: Scott Griswold <griz@lightfromabove...>
Subject: Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
> From: "gd253" <GDudley@Swin...Edu.Au>
>
> I received a gracious email in reply and in it he said that he lives
> in Tucson and supports the dark sky movement. I think we may have a
> powerful ally here. Go easy on him. I didn't ask if he was an IDA
> member, I will soon enough.
If he were to be an ally does that mean he has changed his point of
view since the article was written? I have received no reply as of
yet. Below you can read what I wrote to him. Perhaps I was a bit
harsh, but when someone calls me "nuts" and "Selfish" for wanting to
protect the beauty of the night sky, I am going to be a little taken
aback. After reading his article I had to take many deep breaths to
calm myself. I want to thank everyone who wrote in response to this
article. I do hope that he now sees the importance of fighting LP.
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Dear Dr. Kimmel,
I am writing concerning an article which I recently found on your
website where you express your views toward people who oppose light
pollution.
http://www.familymatters.ws/Newsletter/may_99.asp
I would like to first start by saying that making a blanket statement
regarding these people as "nuts" shows a lack of willingness to
understand the issues. I do however see your point that seeing stars
from a city may be difficult since light will still be present. It
does not mean that we should have a blatant disregard for the
environment around us. An environment that was created by God, not an
environment for us to do as we wish with, but for us to hold in the
highest respect. That includes protecting it and finding ways to live
while being aware of how we effect our surroundings.
I grew up in a small town in the 70's and watched as the sky grew
brighter and brighter until I could no longer see the stars. I did
not live in a large city. I lived about 2 miles outside of a small
town in a residential area that added little more than a few porch
lights in the 25 years I was there. However, the sky grew
increasingly bright from the nearby town that grew larger and
brighter from the wasted improperly directed night time lighting that
could have been avoided if a little common sense were employed when
it was installed. I now live in a small town once again. I live on
the edge of town and while the view of the night sky is spectacular,
nearby lights do preclude me from seeing it in all it's splendor.
However with only about 1 mile of driving I have a view of the stars
that rivals anything that most people could ever imagine.
We as advocates of proper lighting do not ask that you turn off the
lights, only that you think before you light, and when lighting you
do it with a sense for your environment. You call us selfish, yet
your willingness to "turn up the wattage" and increase the light at
night takes no consideration for the surrounding environment. Animals
and trees require proper night and day cycles of light, as do human
beings. God created the day and the night and divided them
purposefully. Who are we to change this?
I gathered some quotes (see below) a while back to show how the
heavens and the stars hold a religious significance world wide. I
would also like to point out that taking a literal interpretation of
the word light in the bible as an argument for your point makes
little sense. The very quote you chose from Isaiah makes perfectly
clear that the "light" is a metaphor for Christ and the Eternal
Goodness that we all have potential to seek and obtain, not the
actual casting of real light upon the world. Light can easily mean
'the spirit', 'the soul', the 'light' of God or any positive energy.
Not necessarily manifesting itself as real light. My spirit may burn
bright inside of me, but I am not shining any real 'light' upon
anything. No one is asking you to turn off your spirit or darken your
soul or turn away from the 'Light of God'. According to your thought
process, the world would be rid of all evil if the earth were
artificially lit 24 hours a day. Read below and you will see that the
true nature of God can be seen in the stars of the sky...if people
are given a chance to see them.
I grew up with this opportunity and am greatly thankful for it.
Peace & Dark Skies to you and to all,
Scott A. Griswold
lightfromabove.org
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The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his
handywork.
-- Book of Psalms 19:1 (The Holy Bible [kjv])
Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the
stars, how high they are!
-- Book of Job 22:12 (The Holy Bible [kjv])
The beauty of heaven, the glory of the stars, an ornament giving
light in the highest places of the Lord.
-- Sirach 43:9 (Apocrypha)
It is He Who maketh the stars (as beacons) for you, that ye may guide
yourselves, with their help, through the dark spaces of land and sea:
We detail Our signs for people who know.
-- Qur'an 006:097 Al-An'am (Yusuf Ali Translation)
From the principle which is called the Tao,
the sky, the earth, and creativity are one,
the sky is clear, the earth is firm,
and the spirit of the inner world is full.
-- Tao Te Ching - Chapter 39 (Stan Rosenthal Translation)
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http://www.lightfromabove.org
A Light Pollution Awareness Community
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:17:16 +1100
From: "Greg Crawford" <gc@nelsonbay...>
Subject: RE: Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
>> From: "gd253" <GDudley@Swin...Edu.Au>
>>
>> I received a gracious email in reply and in it he said that he lives
>> in Tucson and supports the dark sky movement.
If he does, why is his web page, derisive of the notion of light pollution,
still up on the web?
- Greg
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Scanned and protected by Inflex
http://pldaniels.com/inflex
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:03:24 EST
From: ctstarwchr@aol...
Subject: Re: Anyone else care to field this one?
I sent this letter out yesterday to Tim Kimmel at the Family Matters website.
Closer inspection indicates he may have published that article nearly 3 years
ago! Wonder how many people contacted him because of it? I tried to present
sound logic based on experience rather than being accusatory or confrontational.
Dear Dr. Kimmel:
I recently read the article you published on Light Pollution at the Family
Matters website and I must say in all honestly that my first impression was
very much the same as yours. It was an unfamiliar concept having designed
lighting for projects both indoors and outdoors working for architectural and
civil engineering firms for nearly two decades of my career.
The International Dark-Sky Association website came to my browser by accident
when searching for information on photobiology. My property is bathed in the
direct glow of high pressure sodium floodlighting all night long and my trees
are dying prematurely. I knew from college Zoology and Biology the process
of photosynthesis requires a period of darkness to complete the natural
process, so it seemed logical bathing trees in light all night long may have
deleterious effects.
IDA could not help me at that time, but one of their members from Iowa had a
professional arborist friend so he forwarded my plea for help to this
gentleman. This friend of a newfound friend forwarded an article published
in the Journal of Arboriculture titled "Security Lighting and its Impact on
the Landscape," published in the October 1975 issue. It detailed an
encounter discovered by the US Dept. of Agriculture where trees were being
killed by security lighting! Who would ever think light could cause this
kind of harm, but it does if it is not used with care and respect.
In time, I spent more hours researching the information sheets at the IDA
website. Many things I found there made a lot of sense, but others sounded
outrageous from my perspective due to the experience gained while designing
lighting. Being a natural skeptic, I applied some of the principles by
performing lighting experiments of my own. I soon discovered they were
right! Shielding lighting DOES improve vision and my light meters show this
practice puts at least 30% more light on the ground -- the area where it is
needed and in fact is intended to go. See the results from some of my
experiments here:
http://members.aol.com/ctstarwchr/shielding.htm
We do not live or spend time in the sky beyond traveling in airplanes.
Sending light there squanders precious natural resources man learned to
utilize, making our lives safer and more convenient. It seems to me, and I
think you would agree, if we could find effective ways to recycle wasted
light that goes upward into the sky and put it where it serves a benefit to
society, we could save enormous amounts of energy and vastly improve
everyone's quality of life in the process. After adding shields to outdoor
lights it is not necessary to have as much brightness, and this often (not
always) allows wattage to be lowered while still delivering no perceivable
loss if visual performance. In fact, it is usually easier to see after
lighting is shielded.
If you would try a simple experiment I think the benefits of shielded
lighting will immediately become apparent. When you encounter a glaring
light in the darkness where the immediate source is visible (the bulb or a
bright reflector) please shield only its sight from your field of view using
your hand. Notice how much clearer and brighter everything in the immediate
surroundings becomes. This happens because our eyes always adjust to the
brightest item in the field of view. When the brightest object is the
fixture itself this problem hampers our ability to see more than it benefits.
That is the essence of the IDA mantra in a nutshell -- Use only as much light
as you need, Shield it to keep glare from our eyes, Aim it below the horizon
and out of the sky, and Shut it off when you are done. All 4 guidelines
together will cure most light pollution that is stealing our stars away and
harming our vision that leads to safety and security problems.
Your website says the following about light pollution:
"When you shut the lights off at the ballpark, the game’s over. Flip off the
lights at the store and money stops changing hands."
If you try that experiment suggested above, the statement you once made might
deserve to be rephrased to say something more like this after seeing the
amazing difference:
"When the game is over at the ballpark you shut off the lights. When the
money stops changing hands at the store, flip off the lights."
That is all we who belong to the International DarkSky Association ask for.
Responsibly applied outdoor lighting benefits everyone and helps business
owners improve profit margins at the same time. Thank you for listening!
Respectfully,
Cliff Haas
Member: Illuminating Engineering Society of North America, International
DarkSky Association, New England Light Pollution Advisory Group
Chair Light Pollution Education
Astronomical Society of Greater Hartford
IDA website: http://www.darksky.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:08:39 -0500
From: Scott Griswold <griz@lightfromabove...>
Subject: Stellar Quotes
Greetings,
I have compiled a list of quotes throughout history that highlight
the stars in the sky.
Just go to 'LightFromAbove' and click on "Stellar Quotes Throughout
History"
A few examples....
My personal favorite:
"Come quickly, I am tasting stars!"
-- Dom Perignon (1638 - 1715), at the moment of his discovery of
champagne
Of the greatest irony......
"The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago ...
had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands."
-- Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923
Peace & Dark Skies,
Scott
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http://www.lightfromabove.org
A Light Pollution Awareness Community
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:55:59 -0600
From: John Kruse <bigjohn@bluebon...>
Subject: frustrated
Hello all,
A month or so ago a neighbor to my Dad's farm, where I do a lot of sky
watching, put up a mercury vapor light. We have gotten along very well
sense they moved on to the farm next to his. So I talked to him about
the problems a bright light would cause in an otherwise dark area, and
he agreed to install a switch and that the light would only be on when
they were working outside, feeding horses etc.
When that never came to be I talked to him again, and I was always
polite. However this time he insisted the light needed to be on all
night, no matter what I said he doesn't seem willing to compromise.
I'm getting frustrated with this hard head! Any suggestions? John
Kruse Brenham, Texas
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:28:22 -0800
From: Paul Greenhalgh <fvas@shaw...>
Subject: Re: frustrated
Purchase him the Hubble Sky Cap, and ask if he wouldn't mind giving it a
try, the light will be on the ground where he needs it and not in your
windows and up into the Night Sky.
http://www.darksky.org/ida/ida_2/skycap.html You can order one directly
online I believe. Good Luck!
Clear Skies!
_________________________________________
Paul Greenhalgh (Director)
Fraser Valley Astronomers Society
British Columbia Canada
http://www.fvas.net
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kruse" <bigjohn@bluebon...>
To: <DarkSky-list@yahoogroups...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: [DSLF] frustrated
> Hello all,
> A month or so ago a neighbor to my Dad's farm, where I do a lot of sky
> watching, put up a mercury vapor light. We have gotten along very well
> sense they moved on to the farm next to his. So I talked to him about
> the problems a bright light would cause in an otherwise dark area, and
> he agreed to install a switch and that the light would only be on when
> they were working outside, feeding horses etc.
> When that never came to be I talked to him again, and I was always
> polite. However this time he insisted the light needed to be on all
> night, no matter what I said he doesn't seem willing to compromise.
> I'm getting frustrated with this hard head! Any suggestions? John
> Kruse Brenham, Texas
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________
> To subscribe to the DarkSky List Forum send email
> to: DarkSky-list-subscribe@yahoogroups...
>
> Help save your town from obtrusive lighting --
> invite your planning and zoning department to
> join us! Ask them to visit the IDA website at
> http://www.darksky.org today!
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:31:48 -0800
From: Paul Greenhalgh <fvas@shaw...>
Subject: Re: frustrated
Here's another look at the Sky Cap John..
http://www.hubbell-ltg.com/download/specpdf/outdoor/nitsky7a.pdf
(sorry forgot to trim that last message! Dag Burn it!)
Clear Skies!
_________________________________________
Paul Greenhalgh (Director)
Fraser Valley Astronomers Society
British Columbia Canada
http://www.fvas.net
________________________________
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/