<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Hi Herbert,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I know the differences in U-value and I know the insulation depends on the weight of the bale, but I was referring to the extra comprenssion when placed in a wall: are there tests that show a significant change in U-value - for the better or the worse - when there is an extra compression of the bales in the wall?</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0,
0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I ask this because the insulation value from a bale comes - at least partly - from the air that is contained in the hollow straws, so I wonder if (to much) compression wouldnt squash the hollow straws and thus make the bales insulate less?</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>kind regards</span></div><div></div><div>Tom</div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br> <br> <div
style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 12:01 PM, asbn <asbn@baubiologie.at> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv0942371164"><div>Dear Tom and Stefano<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Yes there are tests for different weights, and lambda depends on the compression.</div><div>GrAT (TU Vienna) as well as Waldland made series of tests, showing that the ideal weight for a good insulation-value </div><div>lies between 90 and 120 kg/m3.</div><div>For a standard small bale this means divided by 7,6, so a small bale should weigh between 12 and 15 kg.</div><div>Other way to find out if the bale is usable: if you can easily move the 2 strings
together, it is too floppy.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>And there is a different insulation-value for</div><div>bales on edge: lambda = 0,05(2)</div><div>bales laid flat: lambda = 0,085</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>As mainly bales laid flat are compressed (like in loadbearing construction), </div><div>these walls have - although compressed - a worse thermal performance (U-value) than bales on edge,</div><div>which are normally used in infill-construction-systems. </div><div><br clear="none"><div> <span class="yiv0942371164Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"></span><div style="word-wrap:break-word;"><div><div>all the best</div><div>Herbert
Gruber</div><div>-----------------</div><div>asbn - austrian strawbale network</div><div>3720 Ravelsbach, Baierdorf 6</div><div>Tel. 02958-83640</div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:asbn@baubiologie.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:asbn@baubiologie.at">asbn@baubiologie.at</a></div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.baubiologie.at/">www.baubiologie.at</a></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none" class="yiv0942371164Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br clear="none"><div><div>Am 12.03.2014 um 11:27 schrieb permacultura la boa:</div><br clear="none" class="yiv0942371164Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"></span><div class="yiv0942371164hmmessage" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;"><div dir="ltr">I do not know if is there any 'scientific' test, I have only to share my experience: ten years practicing & teaching and 46 sb building realized.<br clear="none">T<span id="yiv0942371164result_box" lang="en"><span class="yiv0942371164hps">ests many times are</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164hps">contradictory</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164hps">and</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164hps">often</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164hps">fail when they want to put</span><span class="yiv0942371164hps"><span
class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span>natural materials</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164hps">into</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164hps">a table</span></span>...<br clear="none">stefano<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div><hr id="yiv0942371164stopSpelling">Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 03:01:46 -0700<br clear="none">From:<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:tompeeters13@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:tompeeters13@yahoo.com">tompeeters13@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none">Subject: Re: [Strawbale] compressing or not<br clear="none">To:<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:casadipaglia@hotmail.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:casadipaglia@hotmail.com">casadipaglia@hotmail.com</a>;<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jure.pozar@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jure.pozar@gmail.com">jure.pozar@gmail.com</a>;<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz" target="_blank" href="mailto:strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz">strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>Are there scientific tests that show that compressing a wall actually benefits the insulation value or that provide a maximum compression level?</div><div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>kind regards </div><div>Tom Peeters</div><div
class="yiv0942371164ecxyahoo_quoted" style="display:block;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 10:06 AM, permacultura la boa <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:casadipaglia@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:casadipaglia@hotmail.com">casadipaglia@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div><div class="yiv0942371164ecxy_msg_container"><div id="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776"><div><div dir="ltr"><span id="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776result_box" lang="en"><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">From</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">my personal experience</span><span>, both</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">in load bearing</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">than</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">in post</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">and beam</span><span>, compression (and well done!) is essential</span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps"></span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps"></span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">for</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">static,</span><span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span>structural and</span><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">insulation<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span id="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776result_box" lang="en"><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps"><span id="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776result_box" lang="en"><span class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776hps">reasons</span><span></span></span>.</span></span><br clear="none">Stefano<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.laboa.org/">www.laboa.org</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div><div class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776yqt6909358950" id="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776yqtfd77024"><hr id="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776stopSpelling">Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:59:56
+0100<br clear="none">From:<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jure.pozar@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jure.pozar@gmail.com">jure.pozar@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">To:<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz" target="_blank" href="mailto:strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz">strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz</a><br clear="none">Subject: [Strawbale] compressing or not<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><font face="Calibri">Dear all,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have a fairly simple question? Is it necessarily to compress a wall of strawbales which is supporting only itself. It is basicaly an exterior strawbale wrapper of an existing brick wall. As far as I can remember Kuba didn`t compress strawbales on his workshop on ESBG in 2011. Can the strawbales sit-down after some years due to
its weight and make cracks to the exterior clay plaster? The height of the wall is less than 3 meters.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Cheers<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Jure<br clear="none"></font><br clear="none">____________________________________________________ European strawbale building discussion list Send all messages to:<span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz" target="_blank" href="mailto:Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz">Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz</a><span class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span>Archives, subscription options, etc:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale">http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale</a><span
class="yiv0942371164Apple-converted-space"> </span>____________________________________________________</div></div><div class="yiv0942371164yqt7562668050" id="yiv0942371164yqtfd55426"><div class="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776yqt6909358950" id="yiv0942371164ecxyiv4227905776yqtfd89664"></div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv0942371164yqt7562668050" id="yiv0942371164yqtfd38752"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0942371164ecxyqt6909358950" id="yiv0942371164ecxyqtfd71940">____________________________________________________<br clear="none"> European strawbale building discussion list<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Send all messages to:<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz" target="_blank" href="mailto:Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz">Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Archives, subscription options, etc:<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
target="_blank" href="http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale">http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale</a><br clear="none">____________________________________________________<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv0942371164yqt7562668050" id="yiv0942371164yqtfd47203">____________________________________________________<br clear="none"> European strawbale building discussion list<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Send all messages to:<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz" target="_blank" href="mailto:Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz">Strawbale@amper.ped.muni.cz</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Archives, subscription options, etc:<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale">http://amper.ped.muni.cz/mailman/listinfo/strawbale</a><br clear="none">____________________________________________________<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></blockquote></div><div class="yiv0942371164yqt7562668050" id="yiv0942371164yqtfd07506"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>