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<DIV>Tom Peeters, I can only agree with you: This is a unworthy quarrel, which
we should avoid on our common nettside!</DIV>
<DIV>Constructive criticism are ok, but not personal.</DIV>
<DIV>Both sides has had there plead, now go back to your strawballs and keep
quiet!</DIV>
<DIV>At the same time I’ll like to promote, that ESBG in the future should be
for professinals only. Then I might consider to join again.</DIV>
<DIV>Piet Jensen, Norway</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=tompeeters13@yahoo...
href="mailto:tompeeters13@yahoo...">Tom Peeters</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:07 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=Max@PermaLot...
href="mailto:Max@PermaLot...">Max@PermaLot...</A> ; <A
title=strawbale@amper....muni.cz
href="mailto:strawbale@amper....muni.cz">European strawbale building
discussions</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Strawbale] Hurt Herbert and the future of strawbale
building</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>*sighs heavily - the humanity - sighs heavily again*</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Can we please stop this game of people-bashing and act like
adults,...please</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>*sighs heavily, yet again*<BR><BR>Architect Tom Peeters </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/1/11, Max Vittrup Jensen
<I><Max@PermaLot...></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Max Vittrup Jensen <Max@PermaLot...><BR>Subject: [Strawbale] Hurt
Herbert and the future of strawbale building<BR>To:
strawbale@amper....muni.cz<BR>Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 12:14
AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv2132567720><BR>Dear all and Herbert,<BR><BR>Herbert, in
brief: I feel pity for you.<BR><BR>At length: Here's some more
significant omission from your mail.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Some personal remarks on the so-called european strawbale gathering 2011 in<BR>the sleepy village Bouzov-Podoli (CZ)<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>With
representatives from about 22 countries and from all shades of SB
building, I do believe it qualifies as an ESBG, right?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>My first day in BP:</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>This is the significance:
You forget to mention that you first arrived on the Thursday; The day
before the conference. Thereby you didn't get any introduction to the
place or the event, you obviously didn't ask anyone else, and hence your
mail is emancipated by judgments and wrong conclusions. <BR>To me it
seems that the fundamental underlying cause of your mail is that you
were not on the list of presenters for the conference, and that at 1:20
at night you refused to turn out your cigarette, even when asked 4
times. You were sitting 1 meter from a pile of loose straw, under a
flamable tent, bringing a huge risk to people and property.
Significantly you were smoking with people who had been told several
times that this was our central rule: No smoking beyond the camp fires.
We had also very clearly asked people to 'police' among yourself, that
we would much prefer not to have that role. You refused to turn it
out, and I ripped it out of your hand and subsequently closed down the
bar due to such behavior. You were extremely close of being kicked out
of the property, but I showed leniency and didn't.<BR><BR>So lets look
at your accusations.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> imagine coming to a place where permaculture is the<BR>thing. That?s fine by me, but in this case it literally means<BR>eco-puritanism. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I"m
afraid you're not aware about my two Land Rovers, tractor, chain saw and
power tools?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>The only room for presentations - a tiny teahouse </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I
beg to differ: There was a large tent with room for 100 people. We had
sides ready to be put on if necessary. We had 2 beamers available and 2
large monitors. Another place to show digital images could have been in
the area we used as internet cafe; has housed 30 people at other times
for film/slides. Perhaps the most significant issue is that there was
not much of a request, hence using the cottage was the chosen place for
the limited occasions. I suppose you didn't arrive for the Passive house
discussion in the big tent? One of the big monitors were in use
there; again, being a 'full' participant could have done a lot of
difference to your mail.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>(and this also means no coffee anywhere) </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>At any
given time there was about 20 L. of hot water and coffee ready to
mix in it. Personally I complained to the cook about this way of serving
unfiltered coffee, but it comes down to "When in Rome, do as the
Romans", and this is a very normal way for Czechs to drink their coffee.
But I guess you were not present when the coffee table was announced?
(It was 4 meters from where you sat and smoked later).<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>with a sunken roof because of the abundant vegetation on it,</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Not
quite. Fano had unmounted some boards in order to put new prettier ones
on it. Unfortunately Fano got busy with other more important ESBG
issues, and it didn't get done. I'm sorry it looked worse than ever
during ESBG.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> that you have to enter with a deep bow and some deep respect of mother nature. A big bump on the head reminded me: tree-trunks are harder than my skull,</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Perhaps
you should take it as a reminder of the several mails, where we have
mentioned we have a forest kindergarten? Kind of make sense for me that
a hosue for children is dimensioned according to kids, right? The
doors are 175 cm tall, very few people are not observant to notice this
fact; apparently you chose to find out the hard way.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> maybe because I had not taken off my shoes before entering. <BR><BR>The purpose of the building (100 % ecological of course, made of trunks,<BR>earth and maybe a little straw) </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Once
again: WRONG. It is a straw bale building, made of 4 big bales, with
about 40 small bales on top of the big bales, as well as one wall
section made from small bales. Only the South facing wall is from rocks
with cob infill, as is the rocket mass oven. The cottage was started at
an European Natural Building Colloquium; Noe, Tom Rijven, Elke Cole,
Cristo Markham, Sara Tommerup, Tony Wrench, Paulina Wojzicowska and many
others all took part and added their touch to it.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>became quite clear: it?s a stresstest on<BR>what earthen walls really can do for indoor-climate. No ventilation,</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>???
I suppose you didn't look up and notice that the roof of the tower tips
and allow for cross ventilation from the door?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> no<BR>electricity, </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>There's 2x100 volt
electricity supplying all the light necessary for the 12 LED bulbs
inside. There's also a small inverter available for a notebook PC. Yes,
when we need a projector we pull an extension from our house; is that a
problem for you?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>no windows to be opened, and now you may multiply like 30<BR>people in a room for 20 with the 36 ?C it had on this day, add a lot of<BR>sweat and you come to the result, that it?s possible to build 100 %<BR>ecological even with almost no money and without architects and building<BR>
physicians. At least if you don?t intent to use the building for longer than<BR>the 2 minutes we humans survive without breathing.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Central
issue to this is that so many people have pointed out to me that the
building works extremely well in ensuring a cool temperature during hot
days of summer (should do with the large overhang, earth floor and 60
compact straw insulation!<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>Apropos shoes: We wouldn?t have needed them at all because of the heat, but<BR>outside the teahouse we had to decide whether to walk on crushed stone with<BR>bare feet (and get rid of this softening overcivilised attitude of us petty<BR>
urbans) or slip back in our dampening footwear.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Now,
is this a complaint that our local quarry has crushed gravel? That we
chose to use this gravel on the sloped driveway outside the cottage, as
otherwise we could never get a vehicle up the hill? I'm afraid you
forget to mention that at the flat area where the dining area were we
had nice river polished gravel for your feet...<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Nature was the big theme on this 'ESBG', but even the wasps (which seemed to<BR>gather here from all over Czech Republic) knew that and so they decided to<BR>populate the vegetarian feeding places in crowds and followed the food and<BR>
drinks to the tables. This was the next lecture to learn to live in<BR>accordance to mother nature. And if you count those nice little creatures as<BR>visitors (why not?), this ESBG was the best visited ESBGs of all time.<BR>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>This is very correct, a very kind Austrian biologist
who arrived to help prepare the ESBG explained how the wasps are aware
that they will soon die, and hence they want to get the last bit of
sugar available. I'm sorry we didn't find time to deal with this issue,
install electrical zappers (proven to kill 70% beneficial insects),
spread agent orange, or whichever other solution you'd prefer.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>But who am I to complain: not arriving on the first day saved me from<BR>working on the wells (yes, really!) to have the pleasure of pipewater. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Incorrect
again. A few people arrived a day before or early during Tuesday. (We
started at 17:00). One of them was Richard who kindly offered his help
preparing before the ESBG. He did a great connecting some of the pipes
to the new well which had taken 2 different well companies 15 months to
make (Welcome to rural Czech Republic; I'm very sorry things don't work
like in Austria here). One of the processes which had to happen was to
lower a tank into a hole we had escavated, and that hole had to be
leveled first. Richard is not a 'spring-chicken' anymore, and asked 2
young strong guys to level the ground and help lower the tank. It is not
my impression they had any problem with performing this task?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Cold water was spare, except at the only real refreshing place around,</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Had
you arrived Wednesday afternoon, you would have seen me pumping out
massive amounts of cold spring water into the garden/fields? During the
Thursday when you arrived all water systems was online and working,
which included hot water; heated by our 12 m2 integrated solar
collectors, or our DAKON central wood stove, which heats both a 500 and
a 300 liter insulated tank: All in all, had you arrived in time to get a
tour of the house and property, you may have benefited immensely; Ask
the ones who did get the tour during the Open Space session.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> a pond about 3 km astray, which had obviously been overlooked by the eco-puritans<BR>and so kept it?s natural beauty.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Funny
viewpoint. Just for your information: It was made 13 years ago, funded
by EU.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>Enough; I came here to meet and greet and share and exchange, so let?s come<BR>to that. The programm was very relaxed, it's called ?open space? and<BR>supposedly the latest hype for conferences. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Once
again: You arrived much too late and missed out on our facilitators
presentation of it. You apparently have also forgot that it was included
in the ESBG in Sieben Linden back in 2007. And, yes, Open Space has been
proven to be an excellent way to avoid the scene of some people being
hostage to other peoples ego-trips, when they feel they have to present
something to everyone. In this case people are free to go to another
venue. I'm sorry such freedom of choice does not appeal to you.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>In fact open space means, that nobody feels responsible, because nobody had to follow a schedule or could<BR>even be sure about what he or she had to present or share. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm
sorry that you didn't notice the poster advartising the 3 x 4(or 5)
posted simultanous events happening in 45 minute intervals? Or know that
the central rule of Open Space is 'The law of 2 feet'. You may want to
read this? <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology</A>
(It was also forwarded to you when you paid your fee...(remember, the
'early bird' fee you got for signing up in February, but which you first
paid on 16th of May, and yet got the discount?)<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>The majority was<BR>wandering around the perimeter, not knowing where to go, what to say or<BR>hear.</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I
don't beleive this is true.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> Superfluous to mention the lack of any presentation technique like a<BR>silly beamer</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Again,
2 beamers and 2 large displays available (One serves as a mobile cinema
at festivals). Every workshop convener at the Open Space was asked if
they needed IT for presentations; everyone requesting was served.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> (which really doesn't fit to such a low tech area); </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>????
You're really off here. I work 4-8 hours a day on computers, we own
3+monitor, cameras and most digital equipment you'd imagine. I'm very
sorry we don't live up to your accusations and judgements.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>we crowded<BR>together around some laptops, until their batteries went dead.<BR><BR>But let?s have some practice. Only pure naturalists enjoy standing in the<BR>baking, burning sun for more than 5 minutes, not to speak of building<BR>
strawbale constructions. But there are always those tougher than the rest.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>We
had 350 m2 of area covered by 3 huge tents, in addition to the 35 m2
cottage and the SB house. All in all it seems to me that anyone wanting
to get out of the sun had ample opportunity?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Some were very willing to work with the handmade strawbales, but...<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>When
in Rome; do as the Romans. It's well known the CZ bales are of bad
quality due to old East German equipment (Farmers tend to buy round bale
and big bale machinery when they upgrade). The bales we had was made
with such old press 2 km away. Before they were made Kuba had visited
the farmer and agreed that he could use them for his workshop. He
insisted on compacting them further as part of his educational approach,
and his overall sense of quality. It took an hour or two. Do you really
seriously believe we should have imported 40 bales for this workshop? Or
for making an open bus stop? <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>according to the law of Max (I come to that later) one has to begin with the<BR>stemming of the lines before the wrapping may begin. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>???
I've never even hinted at anything like this, so please don't spread
this kind of nonsense to 650 innocent list subscribers. Fact is you
never had a conversation with me at ESBG, apart from refusing to turn
out your cigarette.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>A lecture, that the truth of strawbale-building isn't just fun with bales, but a lot of<BR>preparing work around. After 15 minutes everybody seemed to know the<BR>technique of wrapping by watching the stemming and left the place.<BR>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I was busy and did not take part of Kuba's workshop.
As far as I could see it was always a place of attraction for many
people. When you arrived and sat watching there was min. 15 people at
the area.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>Dusk fell, it was still very warm, and after exchanging a lot of<BR>anger-calming jokes about the ongoing events </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>In
other words, about 6 hours after you arrived, 2 days into the ESBG,
without any understanding, you're busy back stabbing; isn't that what
you describe?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>(in the center of which stood<BR>?Mad Max?, the ever stressed out, goofylike leader with an annoying cowboy<BR>attitude (and hat)),</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Do
you really want me to public describe your looks? Simply try a
mirror.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> we found ourselves coming together, enjoying delicious<BR>cold beer and soothing cigarettes (some more natural smokeables) and each<BR>other, celebrating a birthday child with a ?cake? of clay with candles, and<BR>
entertaining us with tales of the strawbalers world and about the funny<BR>situation. The local ESBG-team tries always to compensate Max' chaotic<BR>manner and is really nice and friendly, serves some schnaps and (free) beer<BR>
to lift the spirit... but it all came to a sudden end with the spontaneous<BR>arrival of the 'leader'. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Again;
I was about 100 meter away, inside an old farm house made from adobe,
and at 1:15 on a Thursday night I heard loud screams, and figured I
better czech out the situation, afterall, I have to live here with my
neighbours, my daughter play with their kids etc. You on the other hand
are only here for extremely limited time. In other words, my role what
that of the 'host', and yours that of a 'guest'. And after hosting about
3000 guests here, you win the prize for being the worst guest ever.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>He prohibits smoking (we sit outside in the open<BR>air on a place called 'bar', but according to Max' law we are on a<BR>strawbuilding site and everybody knows: don't play with fire when on a<BR>strawbuilding-site).</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>This
is simply too rediculous. You were 1 meter from the leftovers of Kuba's
bale tightening workshop; a 1 meter tall pile of straw with a 5 meter
diameter. In a very hot weather period and among lots of people. I will
forever view your actions as grossly irresponsible, and not worthy of
anyone entitling himself the 'National coordinator of SB building'.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> Because the author of this silly review seems to ignore<BR>the actual seriousness of the situation, Max threatens him to remove him<BR>from the premises and fetches the lighted cigarette out of his hands. ?What<BR>
about the candles?? one dares to ask. You all can surely imagine, that the<BR>cake with the candles followed the cigarette immediately into the dust of<BR>the night.<BR><BR>After that lecture in preventing fire on strawbuilding-sites we could have<BR>
proceeded smoking, lighting candles and joking but nobody was in any mood<BR>for that anymore. What was told in the minutes before we went to sleep is<BR>better not be cited.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes,
equals attracts. You had attracted a few other who favoured smoking and
back stabbing, rather than pro-active involvement:
Congratulations!<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>But what the hack, the next day would save the event: the big 'European<BR>strawbale conference' which takes place ? oh glory halleluja ? in a<BR>different location at the townhall in Bouzov (and this means comfortable<BR>
toilets, a beamer, windows to open and hopefully no wasps).<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>You
are aware that during the past 6 months you've been aware to rent a
hotel or pension? Was the toilet seat not comfortable enough for you?
Was it better in Sieben Linden? And again; why didn't you ask for any of
our 2 beamers, 2 monitors etc, if you had the need?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>My second day in Bouzov-Podoli: In preparing the big event some creative new<BR>things were established, e.g. the european networkers, who have brought<BR>european strawbale building-efforts to the point, where it is today, had to<BR>
present their topics on posters. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Once again: WRONG.
As majority of whom you refer to as 'European Networkers' are not
recognized as such in their own country/or do not network, then we had
not especially asked them, and most certainly never asked them to
present 'their topics'. We asked the participants of each countries to
please make a poster representing SB building in their respective
country; a poster which we then had printed and used for a poster
exhibition. I'm awfully sorry that you once again feel hurt due to the
fact that other Austrians were asked; I view this as a central cause for
your overall slander campaign.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>Themes of the presentations were edited and<BR>dictated to prevent duplication and different views, as a result e.g. a<BR>well-known plasterworker didn?t talk about his expertise, but shared some<BR>refreshing notes about his life as a young entrepreneur... an entertaining<BR>
presentation in contrast to the usual specialized strawbale-lectures.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Eh;
WRONG. As part of the <A href="http://www.ted.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.Ted.com</A> format, we did the best we could to get
very consize specialized topics, rather than 'all round'. We had a
series of themes. We invited special selected people whom we knew had
something significant to contribute with, and whom we beleived would be
able to do so in an engaging and enliving manner like at the <A
href="http://www.ted.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.ted.com</A>.
This was also the why you were not invited; as a matter of fact; the
only 2 presentations which were very diffuse, was the 2 which were not
in the planned program, including yours. In the case of Noe; he
never offered to talk about plaster. He accepted our invitation to talk
about his fascinating self designed apprenticeship path, which I
personally found very stimulating and thought provoking as a contrast to
the formal EU funded approach presented right before him. <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>The schedule was tight, to say the least. We were at the clock; a<BR>countdown-device counted 20 minutes, starting again in the second it reached<BR>zero. Questions were entirely postponed to after the last presentation at 5<BR>
pm and exept a lunchbreak and a short break on afternoon we had no pauses at<BR>all for questioning or discussions (or smoking:-). A conference without the<BR>usual exchange like comparing experiences, sharing knowledge, bringing up<BR>
strawbale building by working together. Obviously Max has a completely<BR>different viewpoint on that ? no topic was scheduled more than once, so in<BR>the end it was one large heap of puzzle-pieces, only every stone belonged to<BR>
a different puzzle...<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm afraid I can't claim the
honor of inventing the hugely populate and effective TED.com concept,
but thank you for giving me such credit. As for your other
misconceptions: Tomas clarified it. He actually spent some 3-4 hours
making that 'stop clock App', and it's the central issue why this
conference didn't slip so much in time as the Cohabitat did. BTW: Have a
look at the TED.Com conferences; they always have such a clock to help
keep presenters in line.<BR>BTW: Have you ever considered that standing
in front of the display, reading up what's already projected on the
display, and wanting to captivate people for as long as possible to
listen to you, may more be due to your need of attention, than due to
the desire of the audience? Which of these two elements should as
conference serve?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>Unfortunately even off the stage it was not possible to learn much, because<BR>whatever was interesting and not per se understandable in the presented<BR>system turned out to be a secret of the inventors. All in all a pleasent<BR>
conference-day with concise presentations and without arduous debates...<BR><BR>I left immediately after the conference, some of the visitors from Poland<BR>and Germany did that immediately after arriving (and clashing with Max),</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm
afraid I don't recall any clash? The 3 company partners you mention
wanted the type of ESBG they had experienced in Belgium, and would
likely also have left the ESBG in Sieben Linden or Friland, as they
didn't have that 'conference/shephearding' approach which you experience
in conference halls. I tried to find out their concern, and all it came
down to of facts was that they felt we should have imported German
standard bales, and that we shouldn't mix the body coat for the bus stop
with our clay-rich soil and local sand, but rather use ready mixes (as
their company consequently does).<BR>Had you stayed a bit longer, you
would have experienced a great concert at the castle grounds, a nice
farm fair and more workshops, and a farewell circle with about 50
remaining people at 3pm during the Saturday, many with a lot of praise
for the organizing and execution of the event... But once again
you chose not to take part.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> but<BR>most of the others persevered, tolerated and outlasted the challenges and<BR>inventions because of the big distances to their home-countries, waiting for<BR>something like a turning point, which didn't come at all.<BR>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>You generally seem to be projecting your feeling of
hurt on a lot of other people?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR><BR><BR>My conclusion: Certainly it was great to get to know and meet again so many<BR>nice people, but if this so-called ESBG is in any way significant for the<BR>future of the european strawbale building, then good night, european<BR>
strawbale building. Whats the purpose of an ESBG? For me, what it always was<BR>? sharing knowledge and experiences between all european networkers and<BR>straw bale builders, so that we can go home to our respective countries,<BR>
with renewed enthusiasm (which lasted long e.g. after the last Belgian<BR>ESBG), the reinforced feeling of being part of a movement, fine-tuning next<BR>years coordination, and some new ideas in the baggage to be spread at home<BR>
in workshops. In one word ? bringing forward the case.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>What
you describe above was indeed what we tried to emphasize by using the
very successful instruments used at the ESBG in Sieben Linden; the
'World Cafe' and the 'Open Space'. Please notice that you refrained from
joining any of those events, refrained from taking anything in,
refrained from contributing to making the event, never submitted
anything for the conference, and arrived with a seriously bad attitude.
BTW: Here's your written promise of June 15th: "I will soon send you my
potential conference contribution, thank you for the reminder." ,
well, it never came.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>This years ESBG paints a threat: a threat of an event advertising the<BR>organiser, </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>?
I hardly feel we took it to the extend of Casa Calida? Yes, we showed
which non-profit organisation it is which hosted this ESBG. I believe
that's quite 'Kosher'.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>abused for the sake of the local/regional strawbale building<BR>scene alone. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>You
mean; "Also using the ESBG to promote SB in Czech Republic?" Yes, this
was a central reason to offer to host the ESBG, and clearly stated in
our initial proposal. In addition we asked online as well as among
participants for 'deep' topics to the world cafe, topics which then were
carried on in the Open Space (which you missed out on).<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE>That leaves the international networkers with the task that<BR>should be done by the locals: teaching newbies.</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Not
at all. This was not about 'International networkers'. This was about
asking the participants to share their skills with each other. Kuba
offered his wrap, Tom his C.U.T. (But was hospitalized right before
ESBG), Niels showed ramming. Fano Cobbing. Maren and Rikki recognized at
the opening circle that some participants would appreciate basic stuff
and offered that; Is that so wrong? If so, then please take up that
issue with Maren and Rikki, don't blame the ESBG planning/execution.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE> Don?t get me wrong, that?s<BR>an honorable task, and an important one, only why should any international<BR>expert pay for that? Experts pay for becoming even greater experts. If<BR>there?s just a job to do in which they only give, they should GET at least<BR>
paid. Or otherwise simply no one will gather together anymore.<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>This
has always been a central issue for me in planning the ESBG. I firmly
believe we're all equal, and I wouldn't dream on treating our esteemed
Doc. Minke differently than ...say, a Polish architect student. This is
also why we chose the approach of simply asking all registered
participants if they had something they wanted to present. The Google
document where they could offer suggestions, material and tool needs is
still online for your to view; the link is in one of the many mails you
obviously didn't read.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE><BR>This is just my opinion, but I think its time to act now and push the next<BR>ESBG in a better direction....<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes,
this is very clearly very opinionated. As you heard at the end of the
conference, we will compose a call for hosting the next ESBG and invite
for an online vote about this, as there's not a fixed system to decide
for these issues, and as the list of national networkers is for a large
part dysfunctional. Please be a little patient and a lot less judging.
We have an international course starting tomorrow morning, so I've had
other issues to deal with and believe that this can wait for a week or
two.<BR><BR>BTW: We'll start our course with a team work exercise which
includes doing the Jung/Briggs personality test: <A
href="http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm</A><BR>I
just did mine with these results: <BR>Extraverted
Intuitive Thinking
Perceiving<BR>Strength of the preferences %<BR>22
12 1 11<BR><BR>I have a suspicion
you're going to hit the '100' mark in 'Judging'
....?<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Max<BR><BR><PRE class=yiv2132567720moz-signature>-- <BR><BR> Ing. Max Vittrup Jensen<BR> "Jen-Sen: Make it Reality"<BR> Consultancy in sustainable building, planning and environment<BR> +420 585 15 20 10 - <A href="http://www.jen-sen.cz/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.jen-sen.cz</A> </PRE>
<DIV class=yiv2132567720gmail_quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=yiv2132567720gmail_quote><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Wed, 31 Aug
2011 13:20:48 +0200<BR>From: Cas Mol <<A
href="http://us.mc1106.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chwmol@hotmail...m"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:chwmol@hotmail...">chwmol@hotmail...</A>><BR>To:
<<A
href="http://us.mc1106.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=strawbale@amper...ed.muni.cz"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:strawbale@amper....muni.cz">strawbale@amper....muni.cz</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [Strawbale] ESBG 2011 and the future of
strawbale<BR>
building<BR><BR><BR>Dear All,<BR><BR>I wasn't there so I can't really
comment but I do recognize some of it.<BR>This is what you get when
people make strawbale building into a believe instead of a
science.<BR><BR>Best regards,<BR>Cas<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cas: I'm sorry that you feel called upon to bark up at the wrong
tree (A dogwood?).</DIV>
<DIV>I view myself as a natural builder, using a multitude of
techniques. I design my approach using permaculture, also called
'a design science'. On a more academic level I have a M.Sc. in Planning
and Environmental Management. I hope the long mail above illustrated
that there's more than one side to Herberts fractionalized story? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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