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Hiya,<br>
<br>
Thank you, Rikki Nitzkin, for initiating this discussion about embodied
energy in straw bales.<br>
<br>
It so happen to be that Canadian François Gonthier-Gignac and I are in
process of developing a tool to promote cleaner ways of building
through optimizing Embodied
energy, energy efficiency and costs in residential housing. It's part
of our Environmental Management/Sustainable enegry studies at Aalborg
University, in Denmark.<br>
<br>
Our case study so far has the following research question:<br>
"How to measure/assess the environmental and energy savings of a Big
Bale Building when compared to conventional residential passive house
construction ?"<br>
<br>
We are now in the process of gathering data and we'll welcome relevant
information and links, if any of you have some good ideas: We'll get
back with the results to you in January '08.<br>
<br>
And here's my 2 cents to the well considered answer by Rob Tom: All
your reflections are very relevant. However put to the task of coming
up with an amount of kilo joule which goes into 1 single big bale, my
approach would be to find out how many big bales an average (European)
baling machine make per hectare, and find out the liters of diesel
consumed. These figures should give the individual answer. The LCA
(Life Cycle Analysis) tool then also need some figures for transport to
storage and to site, and we'll have to give some estimates; typically
not more than 25 km in Europe. [Following the doctrine of not
building an igloo in Sahara, nor a SB in the deep forests]. To me this
would give the figures, though I'd at any time support Brians view:
That the Bales are simply stored while in the house and will eventually
return to soil, and thereby off-setting other building
materials...making it carbon negative.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Max Vittrup Jensen<br>
Natural Builder and Human Ecologist...<br>
PS: For the record: I really don't like LCA tools!!!!<br>
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:strawbale-request@amper.ped.muni.cz">strawbale-request@amper....muni.cz</a> wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:E1IodDd-0005Mp-00@amper....muni.cz" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send Strawbale mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Fw: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
(Brian Waite)
2. Carbon (Brian Waite)
3. Re: RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja (Robert Tom)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:51:18 -0000
From: "Brian Waite" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian@brianwaite....uk"><brian@brianwaite....uk></a>
Subject: Fw: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
To: "European strawbale building discussions"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:strawbale@amper....muni.cz"><strawbale@amper....muni.cz></a>
Message-ID: <002801c81e18$3a9bda40$0ae12950@bitzspecial>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Waite
To: European strawbale building discussions
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
It is argued by some more qualified than myself that because carbon is locked into the straw during its growth, that carbon is effectively "banked" thereby offsetting the carbon in the other building materials so that a strawbale building can have a
zero or even negative carbon rating. This line of reasoning seems to me to be more valid than the "offsets" used to cancel out our extravagancies with token gestures.
Another plus for SB: Research is now showing that because farmers are not allowed to burn off straw, and have to plough it back into the soil, this is creating a problem with soil fertility inasmuch as straw needs fungal action for it to decompose and there is now an excess of fungi building up in the soil, year by year, seriously depleting its' fertility. Brian <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.strawbalehouse.co.uk">www.strawbalehouse.co.uk</a>
----- Original Message -----
From: Laimis Zmuida
To: European strawbale building discussions
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
Hello,
It's hard to make exact calcullations, because it is very complex phenomenon. But there are some approximate figures. It is called embodied energy.
Here are the tables:
With straw:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.canadianarchitect.com/asf/perspectives_sustainibility/measures_of_sustainablity/measures_of_sustainablity_embodied.htm">http://www.canadianarchitect.com/asf/perspectives_sustainibility/measures_of_sustainablity/measures_of_sustainablity_embodied.htm</a>
Without straw:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs31.htm">http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs31.htm</a>
Laimis Zmuida
Straw bale buildings in Lithuania - <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blogas.lt/siaudunamai">http://blogas.lt/siaudunamai</a>
2007/11/2, Rikki Nitzkin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rikkinitzkin@earthlink..."><rikkinitzkin@earthlink...></a>:
I have gotten a request for exact figures on
-how much energy is spent in producing a bale
-how much CO2 is produced by it
can anyone help?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:22:07 -0000
From: "Brian Waite" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian@brianwaite....uk"><brian@brianwaite....uk></a>
Subject: [Strawbale] Carbon
To: "European strawbale building discussions"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:strawbale@amper....muni.cz"><strawbale@amper....muni.cz></a>
Message-ID: <001801c81e46$72001090$c9c82950@bitzspecial>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Waite
To: European strawbale building discussions
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
It is argued by some more qualified than myself that because carbon is locked into the straw during its growth, that carbon is effectively "banked" thereby offsetting the carbon in the other building materials so that a strawbale building can have a
zero or even negative carbon rating. This line of reasoning seems to me to be more valid than the "offsets" used to cancel out our extravagancies with token gestures.
Another plus for SB: Research is now showing that because farmers are not allowed to burn off straw, and have to plough it back into the soil, this is creating a problem with soil fertility inasmuch as straw needs fungal action for it to decompose and there is now an excess of fungi building up in the soil, year by year, seriously depleting its' fertility. Brian <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.strawbalehouse.co.uk">www.strawbalehouse.co.uk</a>
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 13:24:12 -0400
From: "Robert Tom" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ArchiLogic@yahoo..."><ArchiLogic@yahoo...></a>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] RV: [Paja] Datos sobre una bala de paja
To: "European strawbale building discussions"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:strawbale@amper....muni.cz"><strawbale@amper....muni.cz></a>
Message-ID: <op.t077ymci291bzk@edg-2wjjz8rsqjd>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
charset=iso-8859-15
On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:50:38 -0400, Brian Waite <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian@brianwaite....uk"><brian@brianwaite....uk></a>
wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">a strawbale building can have a zero or even negative carbon rating.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> Another plus for SB: Research is now showing that because farmers are
not allowed to burn off straw, and have to plough it back into the soil,
this is creating a problem with soil fertility inasmuch as straw needs
fungal action for it to decompose and there is now an excess of fungi
building up in the soil, year by year, seriously depleting its'
fertility.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> 2007/11/2, Rikki Nitzkin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rikkinitzkin@earthlink..."><rikkinitzkin@earthlink.net></a>:
I have gotten a request for exact figures on
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""> -how much energy is spent in producing a bale
-how much CO2 is produced by it
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
I won't provide any figures for the embodied energy of straw bales simply
because the variables are too wide-ranging to nail it down to any discrete
amount.
For instance, in countries where straw is cut and baled by hand and then
used in the immediate vicinity, the EE numbers will be substantially
different than say, rice straw that is cut and baled in Texas or
California where it is likely that huge tractors that are bigger than the
homes of many people on this planet were used and then the straw might be
trucked a hundred miles or more to the building site.
And it could easily be argued that since no one actually grows straw for
the purposes of harvesting the straw, and since straw bales are a
by-product of cereal grain production, the EE of strawbales could be
considered to be negative. But I won't go into that.
The problem of soil fertility due to excess fungi (mentioned above) sounds
spurious.
The initial stages of decomposition of straw and other carbon-rich
materials like sawdust, wood chips requires nitrogen.
Nitrogen is a nutrient that is essential to plant growth and green leaves.
When straw is ploughed back into the soil, the initial stages of
decomposition depletes nitrogen from the soil at the expense of any plants
growing in it. Nitrogen-starved plants may be weak, growth-stunted and
tinged with yellow, all of the signs of poor plant vigour.
Once the straw has decomposed, it is beneficial to soil health and
structure and subsequently, to any crops growing in it. But that
decomposition cycle usually takes longer than a single crop-growing season
and land costs being so high, no farmers can really afford to let fields
lay fallow so if nitrogen fertiliser is not added to the soil, crop health
will suffer.
Traditionally, straw was taken off and used for animal bedding so that it
would be mixed with nitrogen-rich animal urine and manure before it was
returned to the soil, hence no nitrogen depletion.
</pre>
</blockquote>
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