[Strawbale] Fw: industrialization of bale wall construction
asbn
asbn at baubiologie.at
Wed Feb 15 17:29:15 CET 2012
Dear Balers
Yes, I think Max conversion is really astonishing...
The mentioned prefab system manufactured by Kreativer Holzbau can be seen on
http://www.systemhausbau.at (and is filled with CE certified strawbales)
But I don't agree with Bane:
When you assume, that the materials you use for building a house on a
foundation (which is mostly locally made) like wood, plaster, straw bales
are the same, when you do it (prefab) in a carpentry, and when you assume
that this carpentry works in an area of - lets say - 200 km, the transport
will exactly be the same or less (because even craftsmen need to drive to a
building site, when its not prefab).
Sure, you may order your bales directly at harvest time from your neighbour
farmer, but in this case, a carpenter would build 1 house a year and wait
the other time for the next harvest.
So, normally straw bales (whether they are certified and quality-controlled
or not) are stored (which means transport from the field to the storage
barn) and if a house is built during the year, are transported again to the
building site or the carpenter, transport differences are small, if the
carpenter / manufacturer of the prefab walls works in the same area as the
baler.
Other products like wood-boards (OSB, MDF, cross-layered boards), Steico or
other posts and beams, windows and doors, even clayplaster (if not found on
your building site) and other plasters (lime, cement), all the electrical
and water-installations, heating-systems, ovens... are in fact "prefab" and
not locally manufactured on a building site. If you additionally assume,
that using ecological products like formaldehyde-free OSB, natural paints,
diffusion-open permeable boards for facades... are manufactured by a company
sometimes wide away, then transport differences between prefab and build on
site-houses are to forget.
Yes, you need logistics for a house, a lot of, but even if you build your
timber-frame construction on site and let craftsmen do the finishing
(plastering, plumbing, installation, flooring, roofing,...) or even when you
do some of these things as a selfbuilder by your own, you need a strong
timetable, reliable helpers and professionalists so a lot of logistics.
We don't speak about small selfbuilt garden houses, built with your
neighbor's bales and the wood from the next forest, we talk about a
professional sustainable alternative to common built houses and
office-buildings, even in urban areas, which surely can be made with straw
(as infill or loadbearing) better or in the same quality as any other house
system.
"Industrialization" means normally unflexible and centralized
manufactoring-processes, but when we speak of strawbale-prefab, made by
carpenters and smaller companies, its just a saving of money, because
machines and tools as well as skilled workers in a carpentry work more
efficient, weather-undependant and therefore cheaper as on a building site.
Best wishes
Herbert Gruber
--
asbn - austrian strawbale network
Österreichisches Netzwerk für Strohballenbau
3720 Ravelsbach, Baierdorf 6
Email: asbn at baubiologie.at
http://www.baubiologie.at
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bane M. Prvanovic
> To: Michael K. Lough
> Cc: Milan Srdic ; Janko Radojevic
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Strawbale] industrialization of bale wall construction
>
>
> Dear Balers,
>
> It surprised me that strictest nature lover among us (I took a freedom to
> express my personal impression of Max) has changed his attitude about
> industrial approach to SBB.
>
> I can not agree more with Michael: lot of transports + lot of logistics + lot
> of machinery = lot of money, no matter if government refund some of the costs.
>
> At ESBG 2011. we presented DragOn PRO. Some of you had a chance to try it,
> some of you allready have experience with it. We consider DragOn PRO as
> spin-off of our other, much important project.
>
> My team has designed and prepared completely different solution which will be
> revealed at Innovact 2012. in Reims, France on 27. march 2012. Working title
> is WENECO System - Walls for ENergy and ECOlogy. WENECO System will make
> strawbale building possible and easy anywhere by anyone, with minimal
> consumption of fossil fuels, so industrialisation of strawbale building will
> be at your door step too. After Innovact we can discuss about it and building
> codes as well...
>
> All of you will be introduced to WENECO System after Innovact (we strongly
> take care about intelectual property for it) and you will have a possibility
> to learn it at ESBG 2013. if our Hosting proposal wins (I suppose that we can
> discuss about proposal after application on 1. march 2012.).
>
> In the meantime, if anyone of you have some questions about DragOn PRO, I will
> be more than happy to help.
>
> Best regards,
> Bane M. Prvanovic
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael K. Lough
> To: strawbale at amper.ped.muni.cz
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:08 PM
> Subject: [Strawbale] industrialization of bale wall construction
>
>
> The hurdle is always regional and local building code acceptability. Perhaps
> we might know of any problems (and how they were overcome) in this area and if
> new definitions like 'cellulose' being used in description of insulation
> infill to frame construction were employed in building permit applications?
>
>
> I agree the separation of art from science is probably a good thing unless
> it promotes transporting wall units through 3 countries by diesel powered
> trucks.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Michael Lough
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:00 AM, <strawbale-request at amper.ped.muni.cz>
> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Was Strawbale dome - Now Pre-fab (Max Vittrup Jensen)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Max Vittrup Jensen <Max at PermaLot.org>
> To: strawbale at amper.ped.muni.cz
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:45:58 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Was Strawbale dome - Now Pre-fab
>
> Derek et al.
>
> Things change fast...so do minds. When I first heard about pre-fab I
> scorned the idea, now I believe it's the way of the future for SB building.
> It's the most effective way to build, it can be done year round, it's safer,
> and even ergonomically better!
> With all due respect for other continents, then it seems that a number of
> companies in Europe are leading in this field. Here's the ones I know about:
>
> The ones present at the ESBG 2011:
> Belgian Pailletech: www.pailletech.be (Pre plastered)
> Latvian Ecocoon: www.ecococon.lt (light weight)
>
> In UK there's:
> Eco Fab www.eco-fab.co.uk (closed with OSB)
> Modcell: www.modcell.com/ (solid wood frames)
>
> Between them all there's Dutch
> Rene Dalmeijer www.tuvalustrobouw.nl (Out-sourced production to Romania)
> and creative wood construction in Austria: www.kreativerholzbau.at/
> (Closed panels; can't tell which material)
>
> And lets not forget that all along foundation boxes have been used by
> Swiss big baler:
> Werner Schmidt www.atelierwernerschmidt.ch (solid wood frames)
>
> I'm certain there's companies I'm not aware off, and I hope you'd reply to
> this post to make the list more complete?
>
> Common to all is a high level of professionalism, presenting a product
> readily accepted by the main-stream 'consumer', thus helping to get SB
> building out of the decade old stigma's.
>
> Cheers,
> Max Vittrup Jensen
> www.jen-sen.cz
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Derek Roff <derek at unm.edu> wrote:
>
> To counter-balance my negative comments on strawbale domes, I want to
> provide a few links to some interesting and encouraging approaches to building
> with strawbale. In addition to the well-publicized and carefully refined
> building methods that have been developed over the last twenty years of the
> strawbale building revival, new ideas and techniques are always popping up.
> Some of them make more sense to me than others. I am intrigued with many of
> the panelizing systems for strawbales (and depressed by the obvious flaws in a
> few of them). If this interests you, take a look at the links below, one of
> which I included yesterday. John Glassford is the only person I have heard of
> experimenting with tilt-up interior strawbale walls (150mm thick), as well as
> other panel ideas. Chris Magwood has a modular panel wall system that I find
> very exciting and promising. Both these systems apply the plaster/render with
> the wall in horizontal position, which is an incredible help to quick and
> effective plastering.
>
> Derelict
>
>
> Derek Roff
>
>
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> --
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> M K L O U G H
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